stunt_muppet: (doctor who)
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And for some reason I felt obligated to finish it tonight, so now I'm up way too late again and I'm already all thrown off for this week and have missed stuff, this is just bad karma. I was doing so well. D: After this I'm done. I promise. I'll get back on track.

Ahem. The answers to the shipping meme, all 7 pages in Word of them. I talk a lot.



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[livejournal.com profile] elyssadc asked me about Doctor Who (Old-School)

+OTP: Tie between Three/Jo and Two/Jamie (only reason I don’t write loads of fic for the latter is because I find them both maddeningly difficult to write). I’m not sure if they’re my actual OTPs or if I’m just enamored of them at the moment, but they’re both built on very deep friendship and care and actually address the power imbalance between the Doctor and his companions rather than pretend it doesn’t exist, and, in so doing, put them on somewhat more equal footing. Also they both engage in lots of clinging and hand-holding and snuggling and other Personal Space Failures.

+ Runner-up: Three/Liz/Brigadier, either as an OT3 or in any of its permutations. Every side of that triangle is complex and tense and fraught with personal failings and interplays of power, authority, respect, and even affection. The Doctor strains against the Brigadier’s authority, rails against him, calls him a fascist and a murderer to his face, but is still reliant on the Brig’s good graces to have any hope of repairing the TARDIS, and despite their ideological differences won’t allow anyone else to harm him; The Brigadier respects the Doctor’s expertise and seems almost fascinated by him – and yet he is quick to metaphorically yank on his chain when he steps out of line, and at the same time considers the Doctor his personal responsibility and is fiercely protective of him. Liz has little patience for the Doctor’s condescension but their relationship is more functional than hostile, and she has a kind of frustrated, head-shaking affection for him; for all that he talks down to her he seems to respect her in a way he doesn’t respect many other people. And Liz and the Brig are all about the snark and verbal barbs and bristling under orders (or, in the Brig’s case, under Liz’s superior scientific knowledge and thus authority in instances where such knowledge is essential) except when they both freak out in their own very restrained and dignified way when the other is in trouble. So, yeah. I can ship each side individually but (until Liz leaves) I always feel like I’m leaving the other one out.

Also, Ben/Polly, because even though so few of their episodes survive they have this lovely dynamic where Polly doesn’t want to like Ben as much as she does, and both argues and flirts with him as a way of covering up how deep those feelings run, and yet as so much fun with him and teases him when he’s in a bad mood and clings to him when there’s trouble. And Ben is just so eager to be impressive but still so fundamentally decent and protective of Polly despite needing her help so darn often and he goads her on and flirts right back sometimes. And they’re the only people in the world, so far as they know, who have lived through the things they’ve lived through, and they have this whole long history that nobody knows about but them, and…oh, they’re lovely.

+ Honorable mention(s): Four/Sarah (well, Doctor/Sarah, really), Four-or-Five/Adric (stop that), Jamie/Victoria (in such a way that it doesn’t conflict with Two/Jamie), Barbara/Ian (cause it’s book canon, bb), Five/Nyssa (I really think she works best with him out of all his companions), Doctor/Master (Three/Delgado!Master primarily, though I love it like pie on TV but don’t read too much fic about it), Everyone at UNIT/Everyone else at UNIT (c’mon, Bell, Hawkins, get your kits off and get in there too).

+ Crack pairing(s): Jo/Victoria, Polly/Benton, Liz/Martha, Polly/Victoria, Polly/Dodo, Jo/Jamie, One/Steven, Steven/Sarah Kingdom, One/Vicki, Liz/Shalka!Nine (counts as Old School, hush). They’re not all crack by the literal definition of crack pairing – I can take them seriously and some of them have even met in canon – but they’ve got little to no fic and some of them, no matter how seriously I *could* take them, are mostly in fun. If I talked about all of them I’d be here all day, so just enquire if you’re curious.

+ Ship everyone else seems to like, but I don't: I don’t know that there are any Old Who ships that I actively dislike. I’m not that enthusiastic about Four/Romana – I read some fic about it and recognize it as important, but I don’t squee over it like I do some of my favorites. And I want to say that I don’t like Five/Turlough but I have a feeling I’ll find Turlough less annoying if I watch more of him, so that seems unfair. I don’t think it’ll ever be one of my favorites, though.

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[livejournal.com profile] brewsternorth asked me about Law&Order

+OTP: At the moment, Connie/Michael. After that one episode where she had to defend a suspect and punched holes in Michael’s case I’ve started to kind of ship it in a weird, power-struggly sort of way. Doesn’t hurt that after that I get the feeling that the normally confrontational and kind of condescending Michael is a little bit scared of her. Connie so wears the pants.

+ Runner-up: If we’re talking about the entire extended L&O-verse, draw between Munch/Fin and Olivia/Alex. I can’t decide whether I ship the first of them as an actual romance or as a Heterosexual Life Partner sort of thing, but I love them and the way their personalities play off each other and the way they slowly bond over the course of the series despite having completely opposite backgrounds. And Alex/Olivia is just barely subtextual, but they still get these awesome confrontations over cases where neither of them yields and both obviously respect and admire the other even when they think they’re wrong and afterwards they go have mad hot make-up sex.

+ Honorable mention(s): …I don’t think I ship anyone else? I don’t know, I didn’t really do shipping in this fandom. Maybe Munch/Casey? I’m ashamed to admit it because of the reams of badfic surrounding it and how it comes across as Pair the Spares, but they do have a few good battles of wits in the series and match each other snark for snark, which I like in a pairing.

+ Crack pairing(s): Olivia/Brian Cassidy. Even though he was only in the first season, they did date briefly and he did confide in her about the pressures of being in SVU. I still kind of want to write fic where they meet up while he’s in Narcotics and it’s treating him even worse. And I would ship Van Buren/Ed Green or Van Buren/Lennie Briscoe if Van Buren weren’t married and Briscoe weren’t such a mess that I can’t see him getting into any kind of relationship.

+ Ship everyone else seems to like, but I don't: I’m not much of a Jack/Claire shipper anymore – not because I particularly dislike it but because there’s only so much you can do with it, you know? And I never saw any romantic chemistry between Jack and Abby or Jack and Alexandra.

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[livejournal.com profile] rainbowstevie asked me about NCIS

+OTP: Gibbs/Abby. The hugs! The forehead and cheek kisses! The Caf-Pows! How ferociously protective of her he is even by Gibbs standards! How she’s the only person he allows to correct him! I love Abby in general, and I really think her enthusiasm and sly wit and open expression of emotion are good for the closed-off Gibbs. Yeah, the relationship has shades of father/daughter, and I don’t doubt that part of his affection for Abby stems from wanting to have someone to care for, but he just…respects her and engages in her teasing and I think he’s kind of in love with her/wants her but feels guilty about it because she’s so young. (Deep dark secret confession: Older man wracked with guilt and shame about being attracted to a younger woman/man and refusing to act on it out of decency = one of my rather ironclad kinks. I don’t know why, it’s probably unhealthy, but there you go.)

+ Runner-up: McGee/Abby. She flirts with him, you know, all the time. And her teasing often takes on a distinctly provocative tone, which is all the more fun because McGee gets so flustered by it. And they’re prone to adorably geeking out together until Tony starts giving them Looks. Also, judging by “Kill Ari”, I kind of think McGee’s…curious about BDSM but too shy to do much beyond investigate, and you know Abby would be happy to help him explore.

+ Honorable mention(s): Ducky/Abby and Ducky/Gibbs. Ducky and Gibbs are canonically very close (or at least as close as you can be to Gibbs); Ducky knows how to read him and communicate with him in a way most of the rest of the team doesn’t. They’re very contrasting personalities but they sort of understand each other, and I personally like the contrast between Ducky’s cool temper and Gibbs’ repressed Gibbs!rage. Also, Ducky is always a perfect solicitous gentleman around Abby and holds her in very high esteem, and while he’ll offer advice or comfort her if she needs it he never imposes on her and respects her boundaries and her independence. Also, she’s unfazed by his profession and he’s unfazed by her attire despite his age, and they’re both layered and surprising people with more in common than they probably think they have.

+ Crack pairing(s): I don’t know if I have one? Maybe Gibbs/Ziva. Or Abby/Kate. THE SHOW NEVER SAID THEY DIDN’T.

+ Ship everyone else seems to like, but I don't: Tony/Gibbs is apparently the Big Slash Ship in this fandom, but I honestly don’t see it. They have the sort of complex paternal relationship that I normally like, but for some reason this one doesn’t go anywhere for me. I think despite Tony’s storied sex life I find him a little too immature to ship with anyone; he’s like a big kid in a man’s body. It doesn’t help that Tony vacillates, for me, between “lovable man-child with a fundamentally decent interior” and “I’m going to start slapping you now and I may never, ever stop”.

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[livejournal.com profile] gorengal asked me about CSI: Vegas

+OTP: Nick/Warrick! In the early seasons they’re teasing and sweet; as the series progresses we see more depth and intensity to their friendship, and they’re each so clearly the most important person to the other, understanding and responding to each other in a way few other people on the team do. And they still joke and kid and have an honestly good relationship at the best of times, which I love. Also, “CSI-3 seniority, sweetie.” :D

Yeah, I basically stopped watching the show after Warrick got Character Derailed. Maybe you could tell.

+ Runner-up: Warrick/Catherine or Catherine/Greg. Dammit all, Catherine deserves a successful relationship after every single one she’s had on the series has ended either disappointingly or homicidally. And I though she and Warrick had great chemistry in the early seasons and exchanged a lot of sly, knowing looks; with Grissom off in his own head Warrick seemed to be the closest person on equal footing with Catherine, though he’s still her subordinate. And…okay, fine, Catherine/Greg is mostly due to Lady Heather’s comments that Catherine would make a good dominatrix combined with Greg’s flirtatiousness and my sneaking suspicion that he’s a bit subbier than he likes to let people think he is.

+ Honorable mention(s): Grissom/Sara (I like how it was mostly played out offscreen, but I thought it had a few problems, and I don’t really seek out fic for it), Sara/Greg (I like the way her cynicism plays against his exterior bubbliness and how he seems to be able to draw a laugh out of her), Grissom/Catherine (for the snark, mainly, as I think an actual relationship would be something of a trainwreck).

+ Crack pairing(s): Greg/Lady Heather. Again, canon doesn’t say they didn’t. And Greg did shove markers up his nose that one time. And seems willing to at least don showgirl getup for lolz. Surely Lady Heather could make something of that.

+ Ship everyone else seems to like, but I don't: Nick/Greg. It’s another one of those really prevalent, popular ships that I simply don’t understand the origins or appeal of at all (a la Tony/Gibbs, above). I mean, yeah, they’re both cute, but Nick’s way closer to Warrick than he is to Greg, and in turn Greg seems a lot closer to Sara (and more flirtatious to Catherine).

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[livejournal.com profile] kindkit asked me about New Who:

+OTP: Er…I can’t remember what I ship here. I think Ten/Donna is my favorite at the moment, but I don’t OTP it – I can ship them with someone else easy, and I don’t think their relationship is canonically romantic (as I do for some of my other OTPs). I just like it because it’s fun and Ten and Donna bounce off each other with energy and wit, but Donna’s also exactly the sort of friend Ten needs.

Nine/Rose might be here too, as it was my first ever Doctor-companion team and it was before the Doctor/companion canonical romance started to annoy me.

+ Runner-up: Nine/Rose/Jack. It’s a little more difficult to negotiate than some of my other OT3s, because of the way Nine latches onto Rose and Jack’s status as the newcomer, but they do get such wonderful banter together. I can ship it so long as I don’t start thinking about how problematic and horrible it’d be.

+ Honorable mention(s): Rose/Handy (because it could either be a lovely, interesting mess or a screaming flaming twenty-car trainwreck depending on how you read it; neither is exactly what the other wants and Handy still hasn’t even figured out who he is), Martha/Donna (they were awesome together in the Sontaran two-parter and it makes me very sad that they didn’t spend The Doctor’s Daughter together), Rose/Donna (the only way I can be persuaded to accept JE as canon is if Rose falls for Handy because he’s part Donna and thus AWESOME. And if DoctorDonna somehow retains her memories and goes off on adventures.)

+ Crack pairing(s): Rose/alt!Sarah Jane Smith (I’ve read awesome fic for them that makes excellent use of the altverse and what Sarah’s life would have been like without the Doctor, so naturally I want more), Nine/Lynda-with-a-y (NOT DEAD NOT DEAD), Mickey/awesomeness, Rose/Jo, Martha/Liz. Also Rose/Benton and Martha/Harry, because livii is a bad influence.

+ Ship everyone else seems to like, but I don't: I don’t actually dislike the Big Three in this fandom – Ten/Rose (well okay, I don’t like their endings, but I’ve griped about that before), Ten/Martha, and Ten/Simm!Master - but I’m not that enthusiastic about them, and at various junctures all three of their fandoms have annoyed me for one reason or another, and I don’t generally seek out fic for any of them unless it comes recommended. (I used to read Ten/Martha, but what isn’t bad is often kind of painful to read what with the unrequited love and the embarrassment and Ten’s general cluelessness and there’s only so much of that I can take.) However, “everyone” doesn’t like these, so I don’t know if that counts.

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[livejournal.com profile] kayliemalinza (eventually) asked me about Star Trek: Reboot

+OTP: Kirk/McCoy! Plays right into all my buddy!slash weaknesses – they’re argumentative and frustrate each other but stick by one another and spend most of their time together, getting each other more than anybody else. They express affection in odd ways. They’re a pairing of a wilder, more out-there partner with a more grounded partner who’s unfazed by their weirdness. Also, nothing says “I love you” like “I might throw up on you”.

+ Runner-up: Spock/Uhura. I’m usually just okay with canon romances, but I really liked the way this one was handled – it was there, but it was understated and didn’t take over the whole plot. Granted, it also left Uhura with little to do in the second half of the movie, but that’s as much the fault of the story, as it focalized on Kirk and Spock after that, as it is of the romance. I do hope she gets to do more awesome things in the Inevitable Sequel, though.

Also Kirk/Pike, because I simply can’t pass up a senior/subordinate father/son-with-complications relationship. Also because I’m shallow and they’re both ridiculously good-looking, but then, so is everyone in this movie.

+ Honorable mention(s): Spock Prime/Kirk (because it’s deliciously complicated given that NuKirk isn’t Spock’s Kirk, not quite the one he knows, but they’re still, in a way, the same person, and now Spock’s stuck in his world, and Kirk doesn’t really know him yet and has to reconcile Spock Prime with the Spock he’s familiar with and oh, my heart), Kirk/Sulu (DEATH-DEFYING MIDAIR HUG OF GREATNESS), oh what the hell – Kirk/everyone.

+ Crack pairing(s): I really don’t know what’s crack in this fandom beyond, I don’t know, Scotty/tribble. No matter what odd combination of characters you come up with, someone’s written or drawn it. So I’ll go with the ones that I ship on spurious reasons or who haven’t met. Sulu/Pike (parking brake!), Kirk/Chekov (no real reason, but he could be all big-brothery and captainlike to him), Chekov/Scotty (Maths! Geekery! Engineering! Corrupting dubiously innocent young officers!), McCoy/Joycelyn (yes, I know they’re divorced; no, I don’t mean getting them back together; ask Kaylie, it’s kind of her fault), Chekov/Jo Grant (it’s a critical mass of cuteness, Captain!), Gaila/McCoy (GAILA LIVES).

+ Ship everyone else seems to like, but I don't: I know it’s The Original Pairing and all, but Kirk/Spock didn’t really ping me in this movie – and this was when I’d already seen the movie once and was looking for it. I’ll read it if it’s good, and I ship it on principle because hey, Kirk/everyone, but I don’t seek it out with the same appetite as Kirk/McCoy. That and the racewank over Uhura soured me on the pairing a little – it’s not fair, and I’m trying to shake the association, but there it is.

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[livejournal.com profile] biichan asked me about Middleman

+OTP: Tie between Wendy/Tyler and Wendy/Lacey. On the one hand, Tyler is the most unbelievably perfect boyfriend in the whole world, and he and Wendy are so adorable together it makes me flail and make undignified squeaking noises, especially when they play unbelievably violent video games together. On the other hand, Lacey is probably the most unbelievably perfect girlfriend in the whole wide world and she and Wendy make me do the same squeaking-noises thing, like during the Art Crawl – they’re the best of friends and they lean on and care for each other so much. Possibly I could resolve this with Wendy/Lacey/Tyler? I can convince myself that Lacey/Tyler is possible sometimes.

+ Runner-up: Middleman/Wendy. Look, I know I shouldn’t ship it, I know they were explicitly set up as father/daughter, but…but..damn it, I can’t help it, what do you want me to do when he gets that upset over her potential death?

+ Honorable mention(s): Middleman/Lacey. Sexy Boss Man. That’s my argument, really. I need to actually see the episode where they go on a date. And then write fic. (No, I haven’t finished the series. I don’t want it to be over. :( )

+ Crack pairing(s): Uh…1969!Middleman/Ida. More textual than you think! She wears rollerblades around him and everything. Also, Wendy/Mirror!Middleman, because I’m a shallow, shallow person.

+ Ship everyone else seems to like, but I don't: …I don’t know? I kind of like all of them, really. I guess I don’t really ship Noser with anyone, but Noser needs no shipping. Although I think I’d read him with Wendy or Lacey. I’d also read fic where he’s actually a manifestation of Kokopelli, but that’s just me.

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[livejournal.com profile] nentari asked me about CSI: Miami

+OTP: Horatio/Marisol. Yes, still. It’s just…the more I look at and think about their relationship, the more I realize how dark you could make it if you wanted to – you could go into how direly he needs someone to rely on him, how much he craves being needed, and counterpose that with how she wants someone to take care of her, how she seems to know how to get what she wants but is used to having people give her what she wants in one way or another. It’s kind of dysfunctional, and yet still kind of sweet, and I don’t know if they honestly would have made it past the first year of marriage if she’d survived but it at least would have been interesting.

Also, Alana de la Garza. Hello, girlcrush.

+ Runner-up: Horatio/Yelina and Horatio/Ryan. The former’s pretty much canon, and it comes so close to working but it runs headfirst into the roadblock of Horatio’s issues, which are kind of what make it interesting. Plus, I mentioned that the women we see Horatio with tend to be people who need him and who he can offer a shoulder and a “there, there” to; Yelina doesn’t need him for that but seems to like him anyway, which in turn intrigues and attracts him but also discomforts him to the point where he pushes her away. And Yelina, for her part, wants to pursue him and knows he wants the same but doesn’t insist on overstepping those boundaries they’ve built around each other, suggesting that those rules and barriers are a safety measure for her as well, perhaps for denying her own dissatisfaction with her marriage or for preventing what she suspects might be another ill-advised relationship.

Horatio/Ryan is the hell all over Season 3 and 4 and I don’t know why more people don’t ship it. Ryan’s the only person Horatio trusts during the debacle with the lab mole, and Ryan in turn looks up to him and prizes his confidence in him and turns to him both for help and for approval. Horatio trusts Ryan more than anyone else at the lab even though Ryan’s the newcomer among them, the one that’s worked with them for the shortest time – though it’s interesting to note that he was the one that picked out and accepted Ryan for the job. Hmm.

+ Honorable mention(s): Calleigh/Eric, or at least the more subtextual flirtation of the early season before it became this big dramatic Thing that ate up Calleigh’s character and most of Eric’s. Eric/Speed, especially given Eric’s hallucinations after his (first of, what, fifty?) headshot. Horatio/Stelter, because what the hell else did they want us to think of that, seriously, the constant attempts to reconcile and the rejected offers of sympathy and the inexplicably matching clothes point me in a certain direction that I suspect many viewers can follow.

+ Crack pairing(s): Ryan/Alexx. I can’t sincerely ship it since Alexx is married and I don’t want to break up her marriage, but she’s very protective of Ryan and he of her, and they’re always right by each other’s side when one of them’s injured or in danger, and she calls him her hero that one time, and he’s clearly in awe of her but tries to hide it. And she dotes on him a bit even if she calls him on his screw-ups as often as she does Eric. It’s all a bit mother/son, which makes it extra-icky that I ship it, but whatever.

+ Ship everyone else seems to like, but I don't: Eric/Ryan. Again, I just really don’t see it. I don’t see their rivalry as sexual tension; I can’t really see how it’d even go there, and to be honest Eric reads to me as almost aggressively straight. I mean, he doesn’t have to be, but he does have, um, a good deal of evidence in favor of him being at least a female-preferential bisexual.

Also Horatio/Speed. I guess I can see where it’s coming from, but I started watching the show after Speed had already died, so I didn’t latch onto him and start shipping him with people the way I did Ryan. And…I don’t know. Just didn’t click with me, I suppose.




Ugh. SLEEPS. Needs it now. *collapses* Memes are so stressful sometimes.
Mood:: 'tired' tired
Music:: "Roses of May" - Nobuo Uematsu
There are 49 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 07:13am on 01/10/2009
i think you mean McCoy/Joycelyn, as Joanna's his daughter.

I'll comment properly later, but right now I'm typing up this fic that SOMEONE prompted me for but I can't for the life of me remember who it was, oh dearie. ^^


P.S. It makes me so happy that you called Pike "ridiculously good looking." I feel less weird and pervy, mebbe.
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 04:15pm on 01/10/2009
And now for my proper response.


[info]kayliemalinza (eventually) asked me about Star Trek: Reboot
Still bitter, I see.

+OTP: Kirk/McCoy! Plays right into all my buddy!slash weaknesses – they’re argumentative and frustrate each other but stick by one another and spend most of their time together, getting each other more than anybody else. They express affection in odd ways. They’re a pairing of a wilder, more out-there partner with a more grounded partner who’s unfazed by their weirdness.
Oh wowwwwww. Button/nose, thou art hit. Buddy!Slash is one of my favorite things-- it takes precedence over FoeYay, in fact-- and the particular archetypal pairing you describe is a big favorite, too (although it's even more fun when the supposedly normal partner has plenty of oddities himself. Did I ever make you watch Big Wolf on Campus?)


Also Kirk/Pike, because I simply can’t pass up a senior/subordinate father/son-with-complications relationship.
*has similar thots*
Granted, my thoughts are likely to be more kinky than yours (not Daddy!Kink, ironically; it squicks me), but I think we're generally on the same wavelength. :D


JUST IN CASE NO-ONE BELIEVES YOU:
SCREENCAP EVIDENCE OF DEATH-DEFYING MIDAIR HUG OF GREATNESS
i'm so happy you're propagating that phrase, btw

Gaila/McCoy (GAILA LIVES)
GAILA/EVERYONE! I <3 her so much. She's so... benign? I want to say "wholesome" but that seems incredibly inappropriate. Emotionally wholesome, I suppose, if not sexually.
P.S. Gaila/Pike is interesting, too. In fact, there's canon evidence that Pike has a thing for Orions. ^^

I CLAIM INDIRECT CREDIT FOR JO/CHEKOV, BTW. JUST 'CAUSE I'M GREEDY LIKE THAT.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 05:07pm on 01/10/2009
Still bitter, I see.

Only a tiny bit. :D

I don't think we got a chance to watch Big Wolf on Campus! I'll have to see if I can rent it, because everything you've told me about it makes it sound awesome. And almost every show, movie, book, etc that I latch onto has a dynamic like that in it somewhere - Monk and Stottlemeyer, Shawn and Gus, Grissom and Catherine, the Doctor and the Brigadier, Tony Stark and Rhodey, and so on. I don't know why I like it so much, but I love watching that kind of partnership or friendship even in a nonromantic context.

And buddy!slash is by far my favorite. There are some rival!ships and foeyay I like, but with ships like those I always get stuck wondering how one goes from hating someone to having sex with them, since the concept of hate!sex sort of eludes me. I can see subtext and attraction and UST in pairings like that, and I'll write about those, but if two characters are already really close friends it's a lot easier to give them that little push into a romantic relationship in fic.

but I think we're generally on the same wavelength. :D

I'd be interested in hearing your version of those thoughts. *ahem* (Though actually, I love playing with power and authority in sex scenes in fic, but infantilization in any form squicks me bad.)

It is a very appropriate phrase and I'm glad you thought of it, because it describes the whole thing a bit perfectly. Also that screencap is going on on my hard drive. *click*

She is wholesome, though! I mean, she's not what humans would think of as sexually wholesome, but she just seems so enthusiastic and open about it. Un-deceptive, I guess is how I'd put it. And her squee-face after hearing about her ship assignment which was the Enterprise dammit makes me love her even more.

And I did not know about Pike's thing for Orions, but I find it intriguing and am happily shipping Pike/Gaila now. :D

YOU DID END UP INSPIRING IT, AFTER ALL. THE CREDIT, SHE IS YOURS.
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 05:32pm on 01/10/2009
BWoC was never released on DVD or VHS, but it was more recently re-aired (in Australia, I think) so there's some pretty good rips floating around somewhere. I think I have them on my MAXTOR or on data DVDs someplace.

::nodnod:: Yes yes, buddy!slash is very reasonable. And with the archetypal duo we're discussing here, you still get the conflict/tension, frustration and occasional desire for revenge that I find attractive in FoeYay.


Infantilization is squicky, and also calling someone "Daddy" when, you know, they re one. There's a lot of Kirk/McCoy daddy!kink floating around that I always scroll past because McCoy has a daughter (at least in book canon and in my personal canon) and he's Southern, so she'll call him Daddy forever. I'm sure other readers and people with this kink IRL can differentiate and compartmentalize, but I can't.

I have some thoughts on a non-slash Kirk+Pike involving regulated corporal punishment in extreme circumstances (e.g., take some whacks or be expelled) where Pike is all ARRGH STOP MAKING ME DO THIS and Kirk is all like GRR NO I'M STUBBORN. and Pike is just disgusted that it's come to this and his disappointment is what really hurts Kirk.

Slash-wise, there's lots of fun things about Kirk grudgingly seeking Pike's approval, Pike mercilessly refusing to take Kirk seriously until he shapes up, Kirk realizes that Pike is a frelling awesome captain, etc.

Fun fact: Captain Pike was originally meant to be the main character, but when the studio requested a different pilot the actor decided to pursue his movie career instead. Rather than bringing in a different actor for the same character, Gene Roddenberry just changed the name and a few details (you'll notice their names still sound like, though.) So the idea of Pike being a good example for Kirk, of Pike being the kind of captain that Kirk wants to become, has deep roots in canon.

Also, Pike is just so much fun as an authority figure. My reasons for that are not shallow. Promise.

(brief tangent: how incredibly subby is McCoy, honestly? First the commander on the Shuttle: "Sit down or I'll make you sit down!" McCoy: (sits down) and Pike: "We'll have words about this later." McCoy: "Yes, sir" (looks anxious) and TOS, where Spock, in multiple episodes, advances upon McCoy in his smooth, threatening Vulcan way and then performs violence upon the doctor, and McCoy just freezes while Spock approaches, watching him with wide eyes, and does absolutely nothing to defend himself. I mean, sure McCoy is cranky and has a sharp tongue, but make a single threatening move and he flashes his belly.
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 09:09am on 02/10/2009
P.S. Here is an example of McCoy's subbiness:



After that, Spock backs McCoy up against a wall and mind-rapes him. Like so:

Edited Date: 2009-10-02 09:11 am (UTC)
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 06:31am on 03/10/2009
SEE THIS IS ANOTHER REASON WHY YOU NEED TO COME OVER AND VISIT ME. We can watch BWoC together and The Menagerie as well! I'll be there for emotional support and yelling "banaaaaang" at dramatic moments so you'll laugh. :(

also calling someone "Daddy" when, you know, they are one.

Exactly. That, and maybe it's because I really, honestly cannot wrap my brain around the whole Oedipal thing. I get it in concept, but it seems so bassackwards that I can't buy it except as a very unconscious, subtextual thing - rivalry, or tension between child and parent, or...I don't know, something, but whenever it goes so far as explicit sexual attachment I just stop buying it, and the idea of someone in the "father" position (especially someone who's actually a father) wanting something like that from their "child" just...doesn't work. But YKINMK and all that.

(I'm ashamed to admit that I actually did write infantilization of a sort once, mostly to see if I could, but even then I couldn't take it all the way to Daddy-kink. And it was infantilization-of-one-character-via-mind-altering-spores-and-the-other-character-serving-as-their-caretaker-and-wracked-with-guilt-over-how-appealing-they-find-the-whole-thing rather than infantilization proper. Which is probably even worse, and has overtones of Special Bonus Kink-Shaming which was why I never posted it, but I felt I should get that off my chest.)

Ooooh, I do love the corporal-punishment idea - it plays with the layers of their relationship and manages to be kind of emotionally-kinky without being actually shippy or casting the relationship as sexual, which I think is very sneaky and cool of you. I think there might be a plausibility issue with Starfleet administering corporal punishment, but it's nothing you couldn't handwave away so long as you did go to the effort of handwaving. I do love the shippy ideas, especially because I'd love to see how you reconcile Kirk's admiration of and striving to be like Pike with his more confrontational and defiant personality, and especially the way movie!Kirk thinks about his father compared to TOS!Kirk - just based on what the movie says about it movie!Pike would be even more of a mould for Kirk to fit snce he wouldn't have the additional influence of his father (at least, not directly - he'd only have his legacy, which isn't the same thing as being influenced by a person).

I did know that Pike was supposed to be the main character (Dad told me when I informed him that Pike was in the new movie, which made him happy - I think he rather likes Captain Pike himself), and I like your reading of how that translates to Kirk's characterization.

To be fair to McCoy, evil!bearded!Spock is a rather intimidating figure. But hey, sub!McCoy makes perfect sense to me - he's a doctor, after all not a bricklayer I'M SORRY I COULDN'T HELP IT, and doesn't particularly like space travel - command and giving orders aren't his thing to begin with. And the people he *can* boss around are patients, usually already vulnerable and not in a position to give orders or confront him in any meaningful way.

Also, the first time I looked at the comment above, with the .gifs, I had the medley from the end of the film Kinky Boots playing on my iTunes. You know, the one with Chiwetel Ejiofor in drag singing "These Boots Are Made For Walkin" and "Cha Cha Heels" and the like.

It made the scene a little weird.
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 08:30pm on 03/10/2009
ARRGH IF ONLY I HAD MORE THAN ONE DAY OFF A WEEK. D:

Oh hai, I think Fall Break for both of us is next week.... I could come up Sat. night (Oct 10) and leave Tuesday night or Wednesday morning (13 or 14.) Please, PLEASE tell me everyone will be staying on campus.


I can actually understand the sexual component because I, er, can't differentiate between sexual and non-sexual contact/affection all that well. I guess what squicks me is the infantilization and the caretaker mystique, since being dependent was hugely frustrating as a child and I have no patience for or desire to have someone be dependent upon me.

That being said, I'm totally cool with drug-based incapacitation or infantilization being sexualized, so your alien spore idea sounds really nifty. What pairing was it, out of curiosity?

Emotionally kinky! That's an awesome phrase! Yes, yes, this hypothetical fic was definitely emotionally kinky, especially the main engine of the encounters is Kirk's Daddy Issues.

I don't think I need to handwave the corporal punishment so much as properly establish it (which I think is what you meant anyway.) Starfleet, as a fictional device, is based hugely on the British Navy (TOS used the bo'sun's whistle as a communicator sound effect) which has corporal punishment coming out the wazoo. As a diegetic institution, it probably functions a lot like the US military or Special Forces. Unlike a school, Starfleet has ownership over both the mental and physical capabilities of its members. This naturally allows for physical punishment in a way that (I personally feel) schools do not.* In other words, you probably wouldn't think it was weird at all if Pike told Kirk to "Drop and give me twenty!"

Of course, there is a distinction between making a boot camp grunt run laps or do push-ups, which are productive exercises in other contexts, and beating them with an implement, which has no other purpose than to cause pain. The advantage of a dedicated punishment is that it can be more carefully regulated (E.G., this offense deserves this number of hits, etc.) and thus prevent possible abuse ("Drop and give me twenty thousand!")

The way I've got it set up, it's a largely archaic rule that most people aren't even aware of, and Pike only digs it up because he can't let Kirk get expelled. Of course, since it's an official disciplinary measure meant to "wipe" a certain number of demerits from Kirk's record, it has to be documented and then Kirk has to sign the paperwork. He also gets CC'd when Pike submits the report to the Academy administration, and boy howdy doesn't Kirk just fucking love that. So yeah, the main focus of the fic is the emotional calisthenics rather than the physical act.


*I suspect corporal punishment in schools arose from a conflation of the relationship between teacher and student and the relationship between parent and child. Parents, from whose physical bodies children are literally derived, have a certain natural right to their children's bodies that an unrelated adult does not. Obviously, the right can be abused, and whether or not corporal punishment is an appropriate form of discipline is a hugely complex and individual issue.



I'm literally running out the door to work right now so I'll just post this comment and reply to the rest when I get back tonight.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 05:22am on 04/10/2009
Alas, I'm going home for Fall Break, and I'm leaving on Friday afternoon. :( I'll see if I can stay a day into Winter Break or something? I'd imagine Jen's staying, and everyone at her house, since they live there and all, but I don't know about anyone else.

I guess what squicks me is the infantilization and the caretaker mystique

Funny thing is, I don't understand the "infantilization" aspect in its extreme form (which is how I most often see it represented in kinkfic - adult diapers and such), but the caretaker as an eroticized figure makes sense to me. I kind of see it as another aspect of power play - the sense of having that much control over someone, and having someone need you not just in an emotional but literal physical way, carries a tinge of dominance along with the responsibility-and-care tender feelings. I'm not sure why my mind applies hard brakes so soon as those aspects are equated with a parent-child relationship, but it does.

What pairing was it, out of curiosity?

...it was Three/Brigadier with the Doctor as the one drugged, except his mental capacity was closer to late childhood/early preadolescence than infancy because it was easier to write that way and the Brig was in charge of keeping him out of trouble until Liz found a way to cure him. STOP THAT. I CAN HEAR YOU JUDGING ME OVER THE INTERNET. D:

Yes, I did mean establish it. Thank you for thinking of words when I am too incompetent to do so. And I guess I went with Starfleet as more U.S. military and thus more accustomed to the informal use of corporal punishment, trial-by-fire, physical activity as punishment (i.e. 'drop and give me twenty') rather than codified corporal punishment. The latter strikes me as a more boarding-school thing*, but I wasn't aware of its prevalence in the British military, so that makes a little more sense in context.

*The reason it brings boarding-school, specifically, to mind is largely because the student living at school makes it much easier to blur the line between parent/child and student/teacher. Also, the students aren't yet considered adults, and because of its association with punishing children corporal punishment thus becomes tied to an adult punishing a child; the students at Starfleet are young, but they're not children.

That said, I do like the way you set it up as an archaic rule that Pike digs up, as it adds yet more layers to the whole thing because Pike's trying to drag Kirk out of his own messes but is doing that by, you know, taking a whack at him if he has to. Kirk having to sign off on the thing is just another non-physical slap to the face, because the only thing Kirk hates worse than someone else telling him he screwed up is having to admit himself that he screwed up. Basically what it all amounts to is that I find this all a bit fascinating and am looking forward to seeing what you do with it. :)
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 05:00pm on 04/10/2009
YOU SUCK D:
fun fact: i originally typed YOU DUCK


I'm not sure why my mind applies hard brakes so soon as those aspects are equated with a parent-child relationship, but it does.
Maybe because there's no fail-safe for consent in a parent-child relationship? With two adults, either one can walk away at any time, even allowing for complicated emotional attachment. With parent-child relationships, the child has diminished legal status and is unequivocally dependent upon the parent. They can't call it quits if the power dynamic sours. :/ Also, well, this isn't really something people can be objective about. I'm just guessing here, but you, Muppet, probably don't want to have sex with your own parents.

i am judging you to be AWESOME. this sounds muy muy interesting, especially since the role reversal is so extreme. The Doctor is so mentally advanced that he sometimes infantilizes adult humans, and now Brig gets his cuddly revenge....

I wasn't aware of its prevalence in the British military, so that makes a little more sense in context.
Oh pfft, you watched Mutiny and Retribution, the Hornblower movies. I know you did because Paul McGann yelling broke your brain. Remember Wellard getting the snot caned out of him? :( Gene Roddenberry wanted Kirk to be Hornblower in Space, but I don't think he intended that to be a part of it. >P


What's interesting here is that I feel the need to lean heavily upon the British mode, since they're historically more brutal with their children (CP in schools, death and destruction in Doctor Who, etc.) with the sort of pragmatism born from life that is "nasty, brutish, and short." ST:TOS, of course, is pure American idealism; children should be coddled and protected from potential hardship, rather than be toughened up so they can better endure inevitable hardship. So yeah, Pike administering corporal punishment is an odd fit, but I'm all gung-ho about tweaking the universe anyway so why not throw that in the mix, too?

Oh, and just to clarify-- Pike will totally tell Kirk to "Drop and give me twenty!" on a regular basis. >P


it adds yet more layers to the whole thing because Pike's trying to drag Kirk out of his own messes but is doing that by, you know, taking a whack at him if he has to.
That breaks my heart, actually, because Kirk does not react well at ALL and packs up all his stuff to leave the Academy before he realizes (maybe after talking with Bones) that if he leaves, then he just got the shit bet out of him for nothing. It takes him months before he can talk to Pike again, though, and IT'S SO SAD because Pike had the best of intentions and the worst of options. :(

But, ha ha, talking about LAYERS, check out Act II. I haven't quite ironed all this out yet, but by second year or so Kirk has come to terms with what happened and figures out how this whole Starfleet thing works (the first punishment occurred very early in his first year.) So he screws up again, not enough that he'll get expelled, but enough that his number of demerits would disqualify him from a test or course or whatever that he wants, so he suggests to Pike that they do it again.

Pike is like, "WTF NO. WE ARE NOT MAKING THIS A HABIT." but Kirk argues that he is being pragmatic by making a short-term, physical sacrifice in order to facilitate his long-term career goals. He is extremely persistent, and basically forces Pike to do something he really, really doesn't want to. So this time, Pike is pissed as hell whereas Kirk sails out of his office, feeling sore but accomplished.

I don't know if this is Kirk's demented revenge, if he's getting a high off the act (again, Daddy Issues ahoy!) or if he really is just making a logical decision. O.o
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 02:43am on 15/10/2009
Maybe because there's no fail-safe for consent in a parent-child relationship?

Yes, that is it exactly, and thanks again for articulating what I was thinking when I haven't the thinky-thoughts to do it. It's not as temporary as a sexual roleplay or even drug-induced infantilism (which still has consent issues up to here) - it'll be years before a child can properly push back or say no, and there's the whole diminished-capacity-to-consent thing even if we aren't talking about the parents. Also, yeah, I think you were around that one time to see how I reacted to "sex" and "parents" even being in the same paragraph. XD

I think what I love most about it is that I see the relationship between the Doctor and the Brigadier as ambiguously parental in some cases, with Two as the younger child (whose arrival on Earth leads to the Brig moving up from Colonel to, well, Brigadier, and thus taking on more responsibilities as head of UNIT), Three as the teenager slowly growing up (complete with I-hate-you-I'm-never-speaking-to-you-again tantrums), Four as the young adult leaving home for the first time and building a life for himself again, and...I really don't know where this metaphor goes once you hit Five, Six, and Seven, though you could make a case for Mawdryn Undead as wish-fulfillment fantasy of restoring the memory of a father who's forgotten you, say out of age-related brain deterioration, and wow that was way darker than I wanted that metaphor to go, backpedaling now. Anyway, the infantilization gives me a chance to nicely literalize that dynamic and play on the Brig's feelings of responsibility toward the Doctor. And why is it always the dark stuff I never end up finishing? One of these days I'm just going to get sloppy drunk, finish up every "hey, can you tell I've been mainlining Silent Hill Let's Plays?" fic fragment that drifts on my hard drive, and post them before I sober up and realize what a bad idea that is.

Remember Wellard getting the snot caned out of him?

Well, yeah, but that was Age of Sail British military; I thought you were referring to more modern British military. I got a bit confused, sorry. :( And yeah, Europe tends to be a bit harsher on it's kids, I've noticed; though I'd argue that the US rolled out some pretty terrifying children's telly, I don't remember any of it getting as bleak as, say, Inferno or Horror of Fang Rock. Except The Brave Freaking Little Toaster and its freaking nihilistic suicidal car song. Stupid movie.

It takes him months before he can talk to Pike again, though, and IT'S SO SAD because Pike had the best of intentions and the worst of options.

Oh, man, and to have Kirk react to him like that after he did the only thing he could to help him...ouch. :( Also I LOVE Act II, since it plays into (movieverse) Kirk's later habit of planning on the fly and turning his situation to his advantage. And he'd definitely want to turn things back on Pike if he could, as some sort of...proof that he could, I guess? And we know he's something of an adrenaline freak from that scene in the movie where he *drives a car off a cliff* and all, so really, your version of Act II fits perfectly in with who New!Kirk is. And it sets up that competitive dynamic that I adore in an ambiguously-parental pairing, with neither completely having the advantage because even though Kirk's forced Pike's hand Pike's still the one administering the punishment so it's all ~complicated like. And and and basically this idea is a bit perfect and is slowly becoming my headcanon. And I was sorely lacking in headcanon for NuTrek, so I'm quite grateful for that. :D
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 06:48am on 15/10/2009
ooooOOOOOH I hadn't considered that aspect of the Three/Brig relationship. Clearly I need to watch their serials again. ^^ I love your thinky-thots on all of that, seriously even the v. v. sad Mawdryn Undead bit. So much of the Brig's responsibility toward the Doctor is keeping him out of trouble. Will that still hold true, like pulling a baby away from poking a light socket? Or will the Doctor be more docile because of the drug?

Also, doooo it. I'm tempted every once in a while to drunkfic but I suspect that I would end up falling asleep and not writing anything at all. :(


it sets up that competitive dynamic that I adore in an ambiguously-parental pairing
Ooh! Yes! That's a great way of describing it, thanks. My Sulu/Pike fic is going to have a lot of meditations on Kirk as the son surpassing or inheriting the power of the father, so the competitive dynamic is part "I can do better than you, nyaaah" and "Look what I did, aren't you proud of me?" And Pike's motivations for kicking Kirk's ass can be equally selfish and altruistic. E.g., "This is for your own good but damn if I'm not enjoying myself."

It's funny-- I'm glad my CP idea is becoming your headcanon, but I don't know how easily I can fit it into my "postable" headcanon (the rubble fic, the Pike/Sulu, and the Shiny!Gold!Chekov are all compatible) because of the amount of establishment it needs. but that's ok, i have a headcanon AU where all the alien planets are BDSM republics or somesuch and everyone takes a turn at beating the crap out of Kirk and sub!McCoy is floating around in here somewhere, being all mute and compliant and such. and at some point Kirk, McCoy, and Spock get stuck in a cave and Spock regresses to primitive!vulcaness and thinks that Kirk and McCoy are his children. i know this is silly and self-indulgent. Don't judge me! D:


IF YOU REALLY WANT SOME MORE HEADCANON FOR NU!TREK I CAN RAMBLE AT YOU ABOUT SNIPER!JOANNA AND CORPORATE EMBEZZLER!SAM KIRK AND THE AWESOME AWAY TEAM TRIO OF ENGINEER WINONA KIRK, LIEUTENANT PIKE (JUST A FEW YEARS OUT OF THE ACADEMY, DONCHA KNOW) AND SPECIAL ENSIGN JOYCELYN HAPRIN (AKA JOYCELYN MCCOY) AND ALL THE BADASS SHIT THEY GET UP TO, LIKE THAT ONE TIME PIKE WAS DEAD FOR THREE DAYS.

I THINK I NEED TO DO A CRIME AGAINST FANDOM POST AT SOME POINT.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 02:57am on 16/10/2009
I don't know why it jumped out at me (I think it was while I was doing a different ship meme and trying to encapsulate my thoughts on Brig/everyone (http://stunt-muppet.livejournal.com/158844.html?thread=1480060#t1480060), which reminds me I haven't finished that meme, deeerp), but for some reason the Doctor's rebellion within limits and the Brig's tolerance of his small-scale acting out while at the same time checking him when he got too out of hand struck me as very teenager-and-parent, with that same give and take and careful negotiation on the part of the parent and child. The fact that I ship them hard anyway should probably squick me a bit, but my squick threshold is not where it used to be, at least in some cases.

(No, drugged-out!Doctor still needed to be kept out of trouble - largely, the regression accentuates his already turbulent moods, so the verbal barbs and sarcasm become rants and outright sulking, the solid conviction that he's always right becomes a lot more pronounced, and the little woe-is-me-I-am-in-exile self-pity moments get a bit more needy and emotionally raw. At one point he's even okay with being cuddled, because even when you're raising a teen there are moments where they *don't* hate you, right? Also there was one scene in there where the Doctor stuck his tongue out at the Brig after being told not to do something but then I realized that didn't make any sense because poking the tongue out wouldn't have the same significance to an adolescent Time Lord as it would to an adolescent human and anyway I don't know if British kids even do that.)

I'm pretty sure I'd fall asleep trying to drunkfic too. I'm really sort of a boring drunk. I'd have to limit it to a galss of wine, and I'm not sure that's enough to make me post stuff I wouldn't post sober.

so the competitive dynamic is part "I can do better than you, nyaaah" and "Look what I did, aren't you proud of me?"

Yes! I love that in a father-son pairing, because it's two seemingly contrary emotions - rivalry and craving for attention/approval - that at root have a similar source (wanting to be better, whether for one's own benefit or the pleasure of another) directed at the same object, and the mental gymnastics required to accommodate those conflicting emotions. I've already mentioned that it worked really well in that fic snippet you posted, and I am ever so excited to see more of it, you have no idea. *jumps up and down*

I'm curious as to why the CP story would be incompatible (I almost typed incomplatible, which doesn't mean anything but sounds funny), though. It would require setup, yes, but I find setup and development makes a fic more interesting and satisfying. Does it not match up with the way Kirk/Pike is depicted in the rubble fic and the Sulu/Pike fic? Maybe you could make an authors note that the three fics you mentioned are of a similar continuity that the CP fic exists outside of.

You know Kirk likes it. McCoy, too. And DUDE YES MORE BDSM PLANETS. They are my secret pop-skiffy weakness except they're not a secret at all. Also I have no idea what paternal!primitive!Spock would be like but it would either be brilliant or hilarious. It's like a reverse Pon Farr, and as such makes a weird sort of sense.

...why would I judge you for self-indulgent silliness? I'm tl;dring at you about self-indulgent silliness in *two different comment threads* right now. Self-indulgent silliness is excellent and should be encouraged!


YES YES DO RAMBLE AT ME I WISH TO HEAR IT. Mainly because I know nothing about movie!verse Joycelyn and only what's onscreen for Winona and as such I am really, really looking for some good headcanon about them, especially headcanon where they get to be badass and awesome and have adventures and SNIPE THINGS HELLZ YEAH.

I PRACTICALLY DEMAND MORE CRIMES AGAINST FANDOM. FANDOM IS SO MUCH LESS INTERESTING WITHOUT THEM.
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 02:24am on 19/10/2009
incomplatible (adj.) - 1. unable to be served on the same plate.

"Squash and chocolate cake are incomplatible because the squash water gets the cake all soggy and blegh."


I'm thinking the CP story is incompatible mostly because I can't slip it in as a throwaway line the way I can do with everything else. Also, the CP stuff would, if not exactly transform their relationship, then intensify it and makes certain aspects very explicit. The Kirk/Pike I have set up right now is contentious but fairly carefree, I think. IDK. It probably fits better than I think it does, I'm just hesitant to admit to the world at large that I use CP as a framework for exploring character dynamics. Which is silly, because fandom is pervy and will not disapprove.


Paternal!Spock is mostly hilarious with a dash of terror thrown in. He's stronger and faster than both of them, and as part of the regression, he only speaks Vulcan (or a simple form of it, anyway.) So there's a lot of Kirk and Spock yelling at each other in languages they can't understand before Spock just drags Jim back into the cave and pops him on the butt. It's dangerous out there. Spock can't let his soft, pink babies go wandering around without supervision; that would be irresponsible.

Jim, obviously, has to keep pushing the boundaries because ONE DAY Spock will let him go explore the forest. He knows it. (The strategy works-- much like a parent finally acquiescing to a teenager's demands for more freedom-- and McCoy gives the facepalm of the century.)

Spock also gathers fruit to bring back and shows Jim how to crack it open. Also, maybe he fights grizzly bears?

(there's another plot-line that is much less funny!parental!hijinks and more, um, rape. :/ Let's just say Spock treats McCoy a little differently than he treats Jim.)


OKAY MAYBE I WILL DO THAT CRIMES AGAINST FANDOM POST. GOSH. SINCE YOU TWISTED MY ARM AND ALL. YOU JERK. :D
Edited Date: 2009-10-19 02:25 am (UTC)
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 02:50am on 31/10/2009
I want you to know that I accidentally hit "Bork text" when I tried to C&P your definition, and ended up with ""Sqooesh und chuculete-a ceke-a ere-a incumpletible-a becoose-a zee sqooesh veter gets zee ceke-a ell suggy und blegh." I just wanted to share that with you.

Anyway, enough of that nonsense.

I'm thinking the CP story is incompatible mostly because I can't slip it in as a throwaway line the way I can do with everything else.

But does it have to exist in the same continuity as the other three? You could specify in the A/N that it doesn't exist in the same continuity as your other fic, if you feel the need to. That way you're removed of the obligation to even put it in as a throwaway line to anything else. Or you could write a ficlet specifically to write in the CP story as a throwaway line, as part of the same verse!

I'm just hesitant to admit to the world at large that I use CP as a framework for exploring character dynamics. Which is silly, because fandom is pervy and will not disapprove.

I would chide you and remind you that fandom has, in fact, produced fic pairing people with tribbles and seen fit to post it under its own pseud, but then I remembered that I have the exact same problem but replace "CP" with "dominatrices and shibari" and thus advice to that effect would be a touch hypocritical.

It's dangerous out there. Spock can't let his soft, pink babies go wandering around without supervision; that would be irresponsible.

I like this story already. :D Mostly because it provides opportunity for Spock to make angry parental faces at rebellious!Kirk and for McCoy to have to smack him and remind him that dammit, Sock isn't actually his parent, now stop acting like it and if you pull another stunt like that we'll both be sent to bed with no supper. Also, Spock fighting grizzly bears. Which is *awesome*.

Though given that this plotline seems at least mildly lighthearts, I'm curious as to how the secondary plotline fits into it, as it seems to be rather more serious. Poor McCoy. :(

TWISTING ARMS IS WHAT I DO BEST, DEAR. ESPECIALLY AS IT CONCERNS CRIMES AGAINST FANDOM.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 04:30pm on 01/10/2009
Ack, I always get their names flipped. Thanks for catching that. Should be fixed now.

YOU ARE AMAZING AND I LOVE YOU LOTS. I think you know that but I do not express it often enough. *squeeze*

Pike is ridiculously good-looking. I have had a bit of a crush on Bruce Greenwood ever since I saw him in I, Robot and I had no idea he was even in STXI, so now that he's playing a character that isn't dubiously evil and doesn't die I have much more leeway for perving over him.

IMDB tells me he's also in Being Julia! I've been meaning to see that movie for awhile anyway...
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 04:50pm on 01/10/2009
YOU ARE AMAZING AND I LOVE YOU LOTS.
You should reserve judgment for the moment. I fixed the mumu typo. Of course, though it now says "murmur," I remember the typo every time I read that and laugh anyway. I'VE RUINED EVERYTHING! D:

I know! But it's like, he's the normal version of ridiculously good-looking. I love him BECAUSE of his wrinkles, not despite them. IDEK. The crow's feet are my very favorite part, no contest. The deep lines around his mouth and the touch of grey in the sideburns are just bonuses. He just seems all... soft and weathered and malleable. I know that doesn't make sense and maybe sounds creepy. I JUST. I WANT TO TOUCH HIS FACE.

P.S. his hair is naturally curly and it's so cuuuuute.



Also? Pike is amused at everything and sort of mean. I like that. >> Not to mention, the movie is full of all these jumped-up kids and genius brats and then there's the ONE GUY who's matured beyond the emotional age of 17 and actually knows what's going on.
(Of course, this could all describe McCoy, too, which is why he's my second favorite.)


Apparently he was also in a movie by a director who's known for making artsy good-as soft porn. In this movie, a woman is sent to BG's character's hotel room by her boyfriend for a one night stand, and BG is all dominating and such.


 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 08:05pm on 01/10/2009
The mere fact that you're writing Sulu/Pike for me makes me adore you. And I don't think I've ever been disappointed by something you wrote, so, really, I'm just excited that I haven't annoyed you away from the pairing. (And it's sort of inspiring me to do my own writing, I don't know why.)

I don't know if fandom has warped my perception of attractiveness or what, but I've found that I *adore* laugh lines, especially around the eyes. They make a face look lived-in, laughed-in, like you've taken so much pleasure from life (or at least faked it really well) that it's written into your face. Same with the lines around the mouth. They give a face character, make it...move more with each expression.

He is, though. I mean, putting Kirk in second-in-command when he's not even supposed to be there? He'd been wanting to do that anyway. Just to see what would happen.

In this movie, a woman is sent to BG's character's hotel room by her boyfriend for a one night stand, and BG is all dominating and such.

...the film world really is a diverse and wonderful place. :D (Which director, btw?)
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 09:01pm on 01/10/2009
Annoyed me away from the pairing? Darlin', you've barely talked about it! And now to mercilessly tease you: in my fic, Sulu doesn't just like-like Pike. He wants to pledge undying loyalty and say, "Kirk? Kirk who?"

Yes! Laugh lines! I don't know anything about BG, but you can tell that Pike has earned those laugh lines. He's earned them by laughing at every single cadet who deserved (which would be all of them.)

"Kirk, you too. You're not supposed to be here anyway... so no-one will notice if you don't make back alive." That's basically what he's saying there. :D N'awww, Pikey. You're so sweet.

The movie is called Wild Orchid, directed by Zalman King.

I had to go scroll through the Pike tag at [livejournal.com profile] ontd_startrek because that's how I found out about this movie.... via a PICSPAM! I've linked you directly to the second lj cut because the poster picspammed two movies at one go. And um, remember when I said it was soft-core porn? I wasn't lying. Don't look at this in Belk Lab, is what I'm saying.

The poster also provides a DOWNLOAD for just his scenes, which is so considerate because apparently the rest of the movie really blows. BG's scenes almost blow, too, because he is young and smooth (sadface.) Luckily the first picspam is of National Treasure: Book of Secrets where he is attractively aged and wearing a tuxedo. Not to mention, there are other picspams in the BG/Pike tag.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 10:50pm on 02/10/2009
I know, but I do needle you about it at your own journal, which I thought might seem excessive. I do need to ramble on and on about my Trek crack. The DVD's not out yet so it's not *right there in front of me* all the time which means it's trickier to write fic for which means I don't try to write much fic for it which means I don't talk about it nearly as much. Possibly I should give the ficcing a go. Couldn't hurt.

Hai speaking of pestering you have you got a chance to look over the Chapter 3 outline yet? I mean, if you're putting it off so that you can write me Sulu/Pike of deliciousness, that's totally okay. :D

And now to mercilessly tease you: in my fic, Sulu doesn't just like-like Pike. He wants to pledge undying loyalty and say, "Kirk? Kirk who?"

IT'S LIKE YOU CAN READ MY MIND. AND BY MY MIND, I MEAN THE ONE YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO THINK WITH MOST OF THE TIME.

And um, remember when I said it was soft-core porn? I wasn't lying. Don't look at this in Belk Lab, is what I'm saying.

Holy shirt, my life has shadowy half-visible Captain!wang in it now. I was not expecting that. O___o

The shapely (and humorously pale) Captain!ass was much more expected. Oh, BG, you have made some truly interesting film choices over the course of your long and surely distinguished career. Also WOW. I, ah, may have to set aside a discreet folder for this download.

You know, I didn't even know about Zalman King or the Red Shoe Diaries until this picspam. I missed so much by being a prudish 15-year-old. :(

He looks so different when he's younger, though. I might not have recognized him if I didn't already know who he was. He looks a bit like James Marsden with less floppy hair and a slightly narrower face. Although to be honest, part of it might just be that I'm not used to Captain Pike shoving nude masked wimmens around and being all naked and stuff. Well, not used to it onscreen anyway.

I am ashamed to admit that I saw the second National Treasure in theaters and I did recognize him there. I'M SORRY OKAY. I WAS GOING WITH MY FAMILY; THEY DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER.
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 06:21am on 03/10/2009
Do you have a bootleg version? I wouldn't be able to fic without it for reference. I feel no guilt because I know I'll buy the DVD when it finally decides to come out. I'm getting the version with a digital copy! IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY THAT STUDIOS ARE DOING THAT NOW. It's like they're saying, "Go ahead! Make ridiculous icons! Use screencaps as your computer wallpapers and pretend the characters are watching you work! Dodgy manips? It's ok."

Also there is a communicator toy on Amazon.com. It's only ten dollars. I'm planning to buy my friend's violin but otherwise I would've ordered that thing like a week ago. Actually I might buy it ANYWAY because I had to work late tonight. Except it's a keychain, so it'll be small, and I want it real-sized.

*checks Amazon real quick*

OH MY GOD THEY HAVE A TRICORDER
*grabby hands*


Mmph, ok, focus. I am a responsible adult. I am a responsible adult. I don't need to go around wasting money on silly replica props, especially when I don't have any action figures yet. (Action figures are much more important and versatile, you see. You can bump their faces together and say "kiss kiss!")

And WOW did that ever wander off-topic.
I *am* putting it off to write Sulu/Pike, and school and work keep distracting me. :(


IT'S LIKE YOU CAN READ MY MIND. AND BY MY MIND, I MEAN THE ONE YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO THINK WITH MOST OF THE TIME.
Also, they fence. >D


Dude, you HAVE to check out the other picspams (again, not in Belk lab). BG apparently has done a whole slew of cheesy romance films, including a blatant Harlequin rip-off where he is a stableboy. I AM NOT LYING. This made me have an apoplexy this afternoon when I was watching "The Menagerie" and TOS!Pike started talking about how being a Starfleet captain is so stressful and lonely, and when he's stuck up in space he misses his horses.


I hadn't heard of Zalman King either, though I had heard whispers of David Duchovny hosting some salacious show. I think it has more to do with our date of birth than our age (um. I hope that makes sense.)


Well, not used to it onscreen anyway.
*is scandalized*

....

*is also delighted and proud*



Dude, I watched the Mummy sequel multiple times of my own volition. I feel no shame.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 07:14am on 03/10/2009
I don't - I have this paranoia that bootleg movies are going to make my computer explode for some reason and/or the RIAA is going to come banging on my door in the middle of the night and haul me off to solitary for stealing movies, despite knowing that both scenarios are so unlikely as to be ridiculous. But I hear the DVD's not very far off, so I figured I could wait.

IT MAKES ME SO HAPPY THAT STUDIOS ARE DOING THAT NOW. It's like they're saying, "Go ahead! Make ridiculous icons! Use screencaps as your computer wallpapers and pretend the characters are watching you work! Dodgy manips? It's ok."

Hee! "You should totally recreate that Kirk/Spock "Closer" vid with our film's footage! That'd be *awesome*. Not that we've, ah, watched the original or anything. Not at all. ahem."

OH MY GOD THEY HAVE A TRICORDER

DUDE I WANT ONE. NO ACTUALLY I WANT MY PHONE TO LOOK LIKE ONE. THAT WOULD PRETTY MUCH BE THE MOST AWESOME GEEKY THING I COULD DO.

Pssssh. What's the point of being an adult if you can't have a tricorder? That's not an adulthood I want any part of.

Also, they fence. >D

I am starting to worry that I just might not be able to handle this fic when I do finally read it. I might, I don't know, actually shut down for a bit in a completely undignified manner. I'll have to make sure I'm not in Belk Lab then either.

BG apparently has done a whole slew of cheesy romance films, including a blatant Harlequin rip-off where he is a stableboy. I AM NOT LYING.

Oh, I know you're not lying. I checked. Was that the one with the not at all phallic water hose he's washing the horse with? Yeah. Also, I've heard of the concept of the conspicuously shirtless stable boy as a joke so often that I sometimes forget the reason it's a cliche is because, in a whole lot of books and movies, there actually is a conspicuously shirtless stable boy. The world of the romance novel is a beautiful, baffling thing. :D

God, just look at those abs. I mean, really, I'm normally sort of meh on the prospect of chest hair, but I can definitely make an exception here. Whew.

ALSO, COWBOY HAT.


Dude, I watched the Mummy sequel multiple times of my own volition. I feel no shame.

But was it the sequel with the Scorpion King or the one with Jet Li? Because I, um, actually kinda like Scorpion King. Rick and Evey are darling which is unfortunate because it means I can't ship Rick/Ardeth Bey or Evey/Anak-su-namun with abandon. But they're so cute I forgive them for it.

I haven't seen the Jet Li version. Rachel Weiss wasn't even in it. :(
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 04:08am on 15/10/2009
Mmm. Hey. About that Sulu/Pike... when I'm done with my hearts-and-sparkles Kirk/Pike, can we do some meta rambling? 'Cause I had the fic half-written and the rest of it outlined, all about Sulu's attitude toward Kirk's attitude toward Pike when he gets reinstated and I. I dunno. I think I got it wrong. :( Not too terribly wrong, and Sulu will still think Pike is awesome like pie, but mmph. idk. I need to talk about it. Next week, mebbe?


P.S. I'm reading the Memory e-mail right now. Have any of your concerns changed since you sent it? Do you still want me to focus on the same things?
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 01:37am on 16/10/2009
Meta-rambling next week works so long as it's not too to late, as I'm trying to get in bed before midnight so I don't sleepwalk through my classes. Any particular day you'd prefer?

No new or altered concerns for Memory Chapter 3, since I really haven't been working on it aside from those deleted scenes that aren't going to get used anyway. Thank you so much for taking a peek at it; I really appreciate it.
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 11:58am on 20/10/2009
Well, things have piled up a little bit (as they do) so my timeline is wonked up. I have a test this week, but beyond that my plan is to first (1) finish the Kirk/Pike, then (2) talk to you about Memory and after that (3) ramble about Sulu/Pike.

So let's just stick a pin in the rambling for now, k? Don't sweat it atm. (I assume the midnight "curfew" will remain constant for the rest of the semester.) :P
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 03:32am on 21/10/2009
Pin being stuck. And yeah, I'm trying to stick to the curfew throughout, but whenever you get the chance is okay. Weekends might be a little tricky, though, as I've actually gone and Planned Things for the next two weekends zomg, but weekdays after 5 should be all right.
 
posted by [identity profile] airie-fairy.livejournal.com at 04:51pm on 01/10/2009
Oh, Being Julia was really fun up until it made me start screaming at the end for reasons I think I was supposed to find funny and empowering. Still worth it, though. And Jeremy Irons being really, really XD
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 04:57pm on 01/10/2009
WAIT WAIT JEREMY IRONS AND BRUCE GREENWOOD IN THE SAME MOVIE? THEY ARE THE SAME FLAVOR AND INTENSITY OF HOTNESS/AWESOME. TELL ME THEY CONSPIRED WITH EACH OTHER. OR AGAINST EACH OTHER, THAT'D BE GOOD TOO.


this drive-by is justified because it's a drive-by on a previous drive-by. jsyk
 
posted by [identity profile] airie-fairy.livejournal.com at 05:06pm on 01/10/2009
Drive-bys are always justified. Unless they're mean. I don't remember if they actually interact, but if I recall, Greenwood plays a nice gay man and Irons spends the movie looking like my dad, but awesome.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 08:07pm on 01/10/2009
Jeremy Irons was in a decent movie? And Bruce Greenwood's in it too?

IT'S A MIRACLE. *runs out to rent*
 
posted by [identity profile] kindkit.livejournal.com at 07:14am on 01/10/2009
Wow, you did amazing in-depth answers. Thanks!

It wasn't even the fandom I asked about, but I completely agree about the greatness of Nick/Warrick and the inexplicable popularity of Nick/Greg. On my more cynical days, I suspect that the latter is more popular because Greg is white. *sigh*

I know they were explicitly set up as father/daughter

I can see how the show was trying for that, but that's not how their dynamic reads to me at all. For one thing, they're not that far apart in age--I don't think he could be more than ten years older than her and probably less. And considering we see a romance between the Middleman and Lacey, who if anything reads as younger than Wendy, the age difference clearly isn't in itself an impediment. Plus, the way they relate is just . . . sibling-y, not father/daughter-y. I don't ship them at all, but I don't see the parental thing.

 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 08:46pm on 01/10/2009
I always tl;dr a bit on memes like this. I feel like just listing pairings is sort of unhelpful, so I end up writing a few thoughts, but then those "few thoughts" metamorphose into a paragraph and then I've got 7 pages of meme.

On my more cynical days, I suspect that the latter is more popular because Greg is white.

I think that even when I'm not feeling particularly cynical. There's very little fic for Warrick in general, and even less shipping him with anyone. Possibly Greg's also more conventionally attractive (part of which, sadly, is being white), but I'm really not sure what "conventionally attractive" even is anymore so I can't make that statement with any certainty.

I call the father/daughter relationship explicit because there's one episode where Wendy states "you're the closest thing I have to a father", but part of the reason I can ship them in spite of that is because it doesn't feel father/daughter to me. The Middleman in something of a mentor figure to Wendy, but he's not necessarily authoritative in the manner of a father figure - even he doesn't know what or where O2STK is, for example, whereas I feel like a father figure would know but would refuse to tell her. He's more in the manner of an older brother, like you mentioned.
 
posted by [identity profile] kindkit.livejournal.com at 07:42am on 02/10/2009
Possibly Greg's also more conventionally attractive

I think Warrick's gorgeous and Greg is only cute. But I don't know if my tastes are conventional anymore either. For instance, I think both the guys on Supernatural are fugly.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 03:09am on 15/10/2009
I think Greg can be attractive when he puts on a business suit and fedora, but the spiky-haired look does nothing for me. And I don't know what it is about Warrick, but it doesn't matter *what* he's wearing.

(I waver on the Supernatural boys myself - I find the actors attractive in that outtake where one of them is air-guitaring to "Eye of the Tiger", but actors goofing off is a weakness of mine - but for some reason I find whoever plays Castiel adorable. Though I think that has less to do with him and more with his shocked and bewildered expressions in the promos that have been circulating round LJ.)
 
posted by [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com at 08:44am on 01/10/2009
*grins* What, no Jack/K9? :P

Gibbs/Abby is beyond adorable. We've only finished season 4 over here - which means the fandom in my country is going to be on the brink of hysteria for AGES because NCIS:LA's Kensi is played by a very popular Portuguese actress and we're still two seasons away from getting to see her in action.

I never got into Nick/Greg either. I mean, I've always got their closeness (and I got stronger vibes off it than of Nick/Warrick, I've got to admit, even though I keep on rewatching Unfriendly Skies for the joy of seeing them play husband and wife :P) but I've always seen it more as a brotherly kind of thing. Sara/Greg was my big ship back in the day, as I loved to see that he was always able to put a smile on her face no matter how stressed out she'd be - plus his puppy-crush on her was adorable.

And I can't see Eric/Ryan either. I've started watching CSI:Miami from the very beginning (but for some reason ended up missing the Marisol season), so I've always been aware of the closeness between Eric and Speed (again, a brotherly relationship only for me) and always felt that Eric, though gradually closer to Ryan, never stopped seeing him as Speed's replacement. *shrugs*
The memory of Speed I feel also worked on the way I see the relationship between Ryan and Alexx, but the opposite way; Alexx was very close to Speed and was devastated by his death (one of the scenes that got me the most in this show was Alexx doing the post-mortem on Speed and crying her eyes out the whole time), and as a result was a big aggressive on Ryan when they first met, but that soon vanished and she quickly took him under her wing. I can't say I actually ship anyone in this apart from Horatio/Yelina (I'm a bit "meh" on Eric/Calleigh and, like I said, I missed the Marisol storyline), but I like almost all of the various relationships we get in this one.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 06:01am on 04/10/2009
I can only fit so many OTPs in there, dear. :(

Daniela Ruah? I have to admit the NCIS: LA crossover didn't really grab me, but I did like Kensi when she was onscreen. Also I think there are *cough* other means of acquiring the NCIS: LA episodes if you wanted to see them...

I definitely think Nick and Greg are close friends, but they're dynamic doesn't read shippy to me, and tbh I see a lot more intimacy and reliance in moments of need between Nick and Warrick - Warrick's the first person Nick sees when the dirt comes off his coffin; Nick is the one to confront Warrick when he starts to self-destruct no matter how awfully-written that scene was grrrr. The character closest to Greg that way is probably Sara; I feel like Nick's more of a big brother, in that Greg will confide in him but there's not as much reciprocity from Nick (and not out of any malice on Nick's part, more because big brothers don't tend to rely on their little brothers that way).

Yeah, I don't think Eric ever really stops thinking of Ryan as not-Speed, even if he stops resenting him for it. There's this distance to their relationship that makes it hard for me to buy them as a ship, and I don't think you have to love someone romantically to be worried about them when they get a nail through their eye (since "Nailed" tends to crop up a lot in shippy post-eps).

I think Alexx and Speed were close, definitely, and Ryan had a hard time of it from almost everyone in his first episodes/season, but I feel like Alexx adapted the fastest and thus became the person who stuck up for him when the rest of the team was still looking at him awkwardly for not being Speed. I think she kind of felt like she had to?

I like almost all of the various relationships we get in this one.

Me too! I feel a bit embarrassed about liking it because it's the CSI that everyone mocks, but I do love the variety of relationships we get there - the way that the "team family" analogy doesn't always work because people's relationships shift, the way each individual character adjusts to Speed's and Hagen's death, the way they all came back to trusting each other after the lab mole, etc. After a while the continuity and plausibility issues became more than I could deal with, but I do miss my complicated, semi-functional team some days. :(
 
posted by [identity profile] nentari.livejournal.com at 07:05am on 04/10/2009
Also I think there are *cough* other means of acquiring the NCIS: LA episodes if you wanted to see them...
Of course there are, but that won't stop Portuguese media to inundate me with newspaper and magazine articles all saying "WHEN OH WHEN CAN WE FINALLY GET TO SEE OUR DANIELA IN ACTION????" *grins* Like I said, she's a pretty popular actress over here - in fact, back when she was a frizzly-haired teenager, she was my mental image for Hermione.

There's this distance to their relationship that makes it hard for me to buy them as a ship, and I don't think you have to love someone romantically to be worried about them when they get a nail through their eye (since "Nailed" tends to crop up a lot in shippy post-eps).
Exactly. It's perfectly normal to be worried about something as serious as getting a nail through one's eye happening without it meaning there's a romantic interest. And yes, I still see Speed's ghostly presence looming between Eric and Ryan, no matter how close they now are.

I feel a bit embarrassed about liking it because it's the CSI that everyone mocks
Well, just because there are things that are easy to mock (I agree with a friend of mine that you could play a drinking game with Horatio's poses alone) doesn't mean there aren't other things you can love about the show. Relationships and character development are still interesting to watch, I think.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 03:13am on 15/10/2009
And yes, I still see Speed's ghostly presence looming between Eric and Ryan, no matter how close they now are.

Including when it's literally there! I did squee a bit when Eric hallucinated Speed, partly because despite never latching onto him the way I did Ryan I was glad to see Speed back, but partly because it was like a big sign from the producers saying "Yes, shipping this is absolutely right and proper". Hee.

Oh, I'm not saying there's nothing mockable about it, but whenever I talk about it I feel like I have to make sure everyone knows that I *know* it's a bit silly and like it anyway, rather than not being aware of the silliness. And hey, people write awesome fic for far sillier canons that Miami, so I don't know why I feel that way, but I do. *shrug*

Also, omg your icon. I really did laugh out loud. :D
 
posted by [identity profile] primsong.livejournal.com at 02:50pm on 01/10/2009
I love the way you describe the three-way thing going on with Three, the Brig and Liz, esp. the push-pull dynamic between the first two. Of course, you know my weakness for Three/Jo... Someday I'd like to try my hand at a puppy-love Jo/Jamie one, the two of them are just a Cuteness Overload together.

 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 02:51am on 15/10/2009
I sort of half-ship Jo/Jamie already, on the sheer basis of personality. It could be really cute (say, Jamie somehow still has his memories and the two of them team up to tease their respective Doctors and cuddle and laugh together) or a bit dark and angsty (the Doctor goes to pick up Jamie after The Three Doctors, but Jamie doesn't remember him and is angry and confused at being kidnapped and told that he'll remember, he has to remember, and eventually Jo has to tell the Doctor off because taking Jamie out of time didn't fix anything and won't bring his memories back, and while the Doctor's off trying to find Zoe/evade the Time Lords/fix the massive hole he just tore in the spacetime continuum it's left to Jo to help a confused and angry Jamie understand what's going on - and you know she'd be so gentle with him. *snuggles*). It could really go either way, though I really don't know how you'd manage the first one without borking canon a bit.

Basically what I mean by all that is I would *love* to read Jo/Jamie if you feel so inclined. *nudges*
 
posted by [identity profile] airie-fairy.livejournal.com at 04:16pm on 01/10/2009
Weirdly, I want to talk about Star Trek. XD

Basically: KIRK/MCCOY OMG YES. I thought Kirk and Spock had the beginnings of a strong connection and I liked that, but Kirk/McCoy were way cuter.

I couldn't get into Spock/Uhura, because I felt like that's virtually all they gave her to do in the movie. I know she made the translation that set things in motion, but then she spent most of the rest being subject to frequent shots looking The Worried Girlfriend, and not much else, and that was so disappointing. (My friend says that's still more than she got to do on she show, which...really doesn't make anyone sound good.) And on his end, I thought the mom stuff was more effective Proof He Has Feelings. Though the tender way they acted with each other was definitely sweet.

What I mean is that I wanted the movie to be about everything that it wasn't about: namely, Chekov, Scotty, Sulu, and McCoy running around the ship trying to make shit work. Kirk could maybe have a minor role as McCoy's love interest, I dunno. Just gimme more of those other four and I can't really complain.
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 04:53pm on 01/10/2009
Chekov, Scotty, Sulu, and McCoy running around the ship trying to make shit work.
Oooooh.

Kirk could maybe have a minor role as McCoy's love interest
*subscribes to your newsletter*

Can Pike be there, too? I mean, someone has to keep all those geniuses in line, right? Kirk sure ain't gonna do it.


drive-by stranger comment!
Edited Date: 2009-10-01 05:02 pm (UTC)
 
posted by [identity profile] airie-fairy.livejournal.com at 05:04pm on 01/10/2009
Especially as he's only there to be dated. So, yes! They need someone around to be the badass who shoots things unexpectedly from a prone position.
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 05:07pm on 01/10/2009
the badass who shoots things unexpectedly from a prone position.

....

:x


iwillnotbepervyiwillnotbepervyiwillnotbepervy


Also, Scotty needs a captain to sign all those important requisition orders. Not to mention that Pike can keep Kirk busy when he's not important to the plot.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 02:52am on 15/10/2009
iwillnotbepervyiwillnotbepervyiwillnotbepervy

Whyever not? It generally works out pretty well when you are.

...I'm just saying. :)
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 07:13am on 15/10/2009
Yes, but other times you facepalm at me. :(
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 01:28am on 16/10/2009
It's a facepalm of love. I pretend to be embarrassed but I'm actually awed and amazed by you. :D
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 11:19pm on 18/10/2009
Considering that my usual reaction to your facepalms is to throw my arms up in the air and yell "I WIN!" I suppose my little wounded tone there was something of an exaggeration.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 04:23am on 31/10/2009
Ah, good. I did hope that came across. It's not a discouraging facepalm, you really must remember. :D
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 03:01am on 15/10/2009
I feel like Kirk/McCoy has way more room for me to play when/if I do start writing fic for Trek - I don't have to work my way through setting up the relationship like I'd have to do with Kirk/Spock - not saying that there isn't good fic to be had in that, but there's only so much of it I can read or write.

Uhura *did* have more to do in this movie than she did in the original series, is the sad thing, and she hardly had anything to do in the second act besides be the Worried Girlfriend. But then Sulu, Chekov, and even Scotty - heck, even McCoy - almost disappeared by the last third of the movie, so I put that down more to the focus of the movie swinging over to Kirk and Spock than to the romantic subplot itself (though it probably didn't help). But I can't help but ship it because of the way Uhura seems to be completely okay with Spock's Vulcan nature and he with her human one, not demanding more of him by way of emotional demonstrativeness than is in his culture to give but at the same time...it's like, she's not being needy, but she's also not settling for scraps of affection, and I felt like despite not having much to do in the second act she definitely had her own life separate from him.

While I did like Kirk and Spock, I would buy many, many tickets in support of an entire film of Sulu, Chekov, McCoy, Scotty, and Uhura and their shipboard shenanigans, with bonus Captain Pike because you know they're binging him back on board - as [livejournal.com profile] kayliemalinza pointed out to me, no way are they going to let a kid just out of Academy command the Enterprise for anything more than a "reward" period. After all, Kirk and Spock wouldn't last very long outside the ship were it not for their tech support and people who actually know what makes the ship go. :D

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