I should not have been tempted back to the meme. Not even for spoilers. [stunt

1. It really does irritate me when people start the whole "ew, cosplayers are freaks/cosplay is creepy" meme. I know a lot of cosplayers; I've cosplayed myself, once, though it wasn't very good; I'd still like to do it someday (I'd be girl!Five). Dressing up as a character doesn't mean you think you are them or whatever; dressing up as a character and acting in character still doesn't mean you think you are them. It's just fun. People have fun in different ways; for some people, dressing up is fun. Put your judgement away, it's yucky.

But what irritates me more is when the people who call cosplayers freaks ARE POSTING ON AN ANONYMOUS INTERNET FANDOM MESSAGE BOARD. Let me clarify: the single-fandom equivalent of 4chan.

POT. KETTLE. BLACK.

2. In non-meme-related thoughts, it also irritates me when I finally find new fic for a pairing I love that gets, oh, maybe two or three new fics a year? And I start reading it and it's funny and hot and plays with a fanfic cliche that I like and so far so good -

- and then it breaks out one of my biggest fanfic pet peeves. In this case, epithets.

*headdesks* No, no, no, fanfic writer! You were doing so well! And I want to like this fic, I really do, but when you call your characters "the Gallifreyan" and "the scientist" and "the Earther" (?) instead of just using their names I just can't! It would have been so easy to fix! You were so close!

Yeah. I hate it when that happens. I kind of want to mention it to the author in my comment, since it'd be such an easy thing to fix and it'd make the fic so much better, but I don't know how this author feels about concrit and the Who fandom has already had one big screaming tantrum about concrit; I don't want to wind up in the middle of another. Not that I think this author is that delicate (I'm sure she isn't) but you know how it is.

3. Less ranty note: I have developed a mysterious craving for Three/Brigadier post-Inferno fics wherein the Doctor seeks some sort of comfort or reassurance from the Brig after what he saw in the parallel world (because I know he walked it off by the end of the serial, but if it's showing up as one of the things that scares him the worst in The Mind of Evil, it has to have affected him more than he let on, symbolism and control issues notwithstanding). I can kind of imagine him wanting the reassurance that the Brigadier he knows could never be the Brigade Leader, not in this universe; that possibility of who he could be had been negated and would never come back. Especially given the uneasy dynamic between the two of them, where despite the Doctor being the intellectual and technical superior he is still dependant on the Brig's good graces because if the Brig turns him away he has few other places to go, and no other resources to try to get the TARDIS repaired. Having the Brig as a potentially threatening figure would be especially troubling in that instance, methinks.

Of course, since both the Doctor and the Brigadier are about as capable of expressing their emotions as a sand dollar is at doing multivariable calculus, it ends up being mostly awkward and halting and unspoken and roundabout and very little if anything actually gets resolved. Entire conversations are held using naught but uncomfortable points of ellipsis.

I really don't know why I want this, given that I don't even like hurt/comfort as a genre okay actually I do a little bit but I pretend that I don't because I know I shouldn't since the express purpose of hurt/comfort is to provide a cheap emotional fix and it's most often derivative and unsatisfying and I just have no taste at all, I'll just put that out there and that scenario is nothing if not glorified hurt/comfort. But I want it. Kind of want to write it, but mostly I want to read it because the absolute last thing I need is another writing project.

4. SPEAKING OF WRITING PROJECTS. I transcribed all the various bits and pieces of my Remix from my notebook and cell phone onto a single document, and guess whose fic is now a total of 850 words? \o/ Apparently I had written more than I thought I had. Granted, the actual story isn't near finished yet, but at least I don't have to stress as much over making my word count. That I should be able to do.

*dances*

And now I must go back to work.

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.....what the hell's wrong with cosplaying? No, I'm not a cosplayer but I've seen some highly impressive costumes in my time, I don't understand how that's any stranger than any other kind of fannish fun. (Re "Inferno" stories: I realize this isn't what you asked for, pairings- or setting-wise, but Eponymous Rose's "What the Thunder Said" = must-read.)

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No idea. No one ever tries to justify the cosplay hate, beyond that it's "creepy-obsessive", and I wonder if they realize that from the point of view of a non-fannish person so is fanfiction. It's the whole geek hierarchy thing going again; we may be geeky, but at least we're not cosplayers/Trekkies/furries/whoever.

"What the Thunder Said" was one of the earliest fics I read in this fandom, and part of the reason Inferno's one of my favorite stories. It's one of those fics that's become part of my personal canon.

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I suppose it's the most outwardly visible sign of geekishness - think "Trekkies" - and maybe there are some fans who just think it's bad form to thrust your geekishness into the faces of 'the mundanes'.

Which doesn't exactly explain how dressing up at Comic-Con equates to "freaking the mundanes," but...

there are some fans who just think it's bad form to thrust your geekishness into the faces of 'the mundanes'.

See, that makes sense if you're talking about someone who insisted on speaking Klingon at work or wore a costume out buying groceries (which I do think is inappropriate), but cosplay is mostly limited to conventions, more specifically fannish conventions (I've yet to hear of anyone dressed up at Vividcon or Writercon, for example). And the attendees at cons are already geeks, for the most part. So in that case, I don't get the contempt.

"wore a costume out buying groceries"

Hey, it depends on the costume.

I kinda like seeing people have fun with what they're wearing.

"No one ever tries to justify the cosplay hate, beyond that it's 'creepy-obsessive,' and I wonder if they realize that from the point of view of a non-fannish person so is fanfiction."

When we went to see the Goodman Theater's Christmas Carol production there was an attending couple in full Dickensian costume including stovepipe hat; I and the rest of the audience must've missed the memo because the consensus was, "Hey, neat." Sorry for not wanting to legislate their fun, I guess.

"It's the whole geek hierarchy thing going again; we may be geeky, but at least we're not cosplayers/Trekkies/furries/whoever."

Sorry, kids, we're all bozos on this bus.

I really, really like your story concept - I want to read it too, though I doubt I'm up to writing it as I'm not an angsty enough writer. I bet you could pull it off, or maybe JJ if you really hit a wall.

Angst is hardly my strong point either (I'm always afraid that the prose will turn unforgivably purple), but I can usually manage it so long as I firmly think of it as introspection, even when it isn't. But I already have so many ficcish obligations (WIPs, ficlets/drabbles I owe people, whatever ficathon I end up signing up for next in a moment of madness) that adding another one to the pile just won't end well.

Do you dislike all epithets used in stories? Because it's an effective way to get around using "he" or their name too often.

*nods* This. Epithets can be overused, but they also save on overuse of other things.

Personally, I notice epithets a heck of a lot more than he or she or even the character's name.

I second this. I've never thought "This story's constant use of character names is driving me crazy!" but I've frequently been annoyed/pulled out of the story by epithets.

Not all epithets - I get that sometimes they're necessary - but I do think they should be used sparingly, and this fic used them almost every time it referred to the characters, which led to increasingly convoluted titles that were more distracting than name repetition would have been. (Like "the Earther", which I mentioned above; it pulled me right out of the story, and it seemed like the author was going to rather ridiculous lengths to avoid using their names when she really hadn't used those names enough to justify that.)

I tend not to notice name repetition unless the author never uses a pronoun, and when an epithet's used I'd rather it be something simple like "the older man" or "the girl". Otherwise it gets distracting, and sometimes feels like the author is giving me irrelevant information.

But this is all just my personal taste. Normally I won't get this annoyed at a fic unless it really, *really* overdoes the epithets, which this one did.

Now I'm feeling guilty because I tend to use epithets from time to time, to stop making the use of their names sound too repetitive.

Occasional use of epithets I don't mind so much, and I get that sometimes it's necessary to avoid repetition. But this fic used them almost every time it referred to the characters, and some of the epithets it used get really clunky and distracting, as if the author was determined not to use the characters' names at all if she could avoid it. That was what got to me.

I really should edit this post. *looks around shyly*

Re epithets...I blame grade school curriculum. When my daughter brought home handouts/assignments on story writing, I think my brain exploded. They teach kids that repetition is bad, so they should use epithets and vary dialogue attribution (she exclaimed! he said sadly! she cried! ugh). I told my daughter to do her assignments the way the teacher said, but it was wrong...and I taught her the right way. :D

PS - I saw this and thought of you. Hee. :) http://news.aol.com/health/article/blue-mandms-help-reduce-spine-injury/591604

It certainly took me a long time to unlearn the habit of never using the same dialogue attribution twice. Though I suppose it's essentially the same thing as epithets; used sparingly they're alright, but teaching kids that they should never use "said" or "he" or "she" is not the way to go about it.

See? See? The blue M&Ms are just better. I knew it. :D Thanks for showing me that! I wonder if they'll approve that for use on people even if it makes them turn blue!

I wonder if they'll approve that for use on people even if it makes them turn blue!

Well, you could always cosplay (*snicker*) as this character: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Raffalo .

It'd be a lot less sticky than body paint, that's for sure.

I love the comment where someone suggests that being blue would become a status symbol among the extreme sports crowd, because it meant they'd survived an injury that should have kept them out of the game. I think that'd be kind of interesting.

POT. KETTLE. BLACK.
*pats* Poor Muppet. You need a less headdesk-inducing fandom, or at least a better corner of this one.

And, er, am I missing something? Cosplay isn't some sort of sexual fetish, is it? Because I was under the impression that it was a rather harmless sort of fan outlet, just like all the other harmless fan outlets, and don't quite understand the rabidly negative connotation around it. As far as I can tell it seems pretty much like theater without a stage/script...

So long as I ignore most of fandom except for my flist I usually do just fine. I'm lucky that way. :D I just need to break the habit of visiting the anonmeme when I know it's going to make me angry, and then I can go back to my happy sandbox and stop yelling at people.

I'm sure there are people for whom it is a sexual thing, but that's not the primary purpose of cosplay; it's like dressing up for Halloween. And while I'd probably find it a little excessive if people wore fannish costumes to go get their hair done or go to the grocery store or something, if it's done at conventions among people who are already geeks then I don't get the contempt.

I don't even get why cosplay has a special name. It's just freaking dress up, right? Costumes? Same stuff we did when we were little? Why is it suddenly a subcategory of human nature?

OMG my mom uses epithets EXCESSIVELY in her writing and it's just an incomprehensible mass and I hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it dear god how I loathe it and she won't stop. In light sprinklings, perhaps, it could have a profundity to it, but she uses it more than she uses their fucking names or pronouns, so...HATE.

I don't even get why cosplay has a special name.

Blame the Japanese! (It's their portmanteau for "costume roleplay." Although they didn't invent dressing up in costumes for fan purposes, they just were the first to give it a special name. And in the years since anime fandom got big worldwide, the name became standardized.)

Edited Date: 2009-07-28 08:14 pm (UTC)

And now somehow "cosplay" is a separate thing from dressing up in costume, and as a separate thing it is somehow something to be mocked? I DON'T GET THE PROBLEM.

The term "cosplay" is mostly used (from what I can tell) for fannish costuming, especially when done by adults or late teenagers. "Dress-up" still has the connotations of childhood, whether it should or not, so the implication (from the people who mock cosplayers) is that the people dressing up should have grown out of it by now, and are "creepy" for not doing so. At least that's my understanding of it.

I don't get the problem either, but then I find dressing up and putting on costumes fun (though I'm way too self-conscious to actually do it in public). Not everyone does.

OMG my mom uses epithets EXCESSIVELY in her writing and it's just an incomprehensible mass

That's the main problem I have with them! It's not that they can never be used ever, but when you use them all the time, way beyond what's necessary to avoid repetition, then you end up using convoluted categories to refer to people that pull me right out of the story and a lot of the time the title you're using to refer to them has no relevance to what's going on in the scene (calling someone "the scientist" when they're stuck in a cave with nothing to do science with and aren't talking about science or whatever). I don't notice name repetition nearly as much, though excessive pronoun use without clarifying who you're referring to can be just as bad.

Oh dear... I fear I am a user or these epithets you speak of. But my only thing of it is that I'm so often writing femslash, it becomes their names over and over and over again, because pronouns can be... problematic, let's say. Anyways. But I do get what you're saying. It also seems like some people can do it, and some just.... really, really can't. And since usually the people who can't are doing it for no particular reason other than the fact that other people are.

Also, yay Muppet!fic, even when I don't know the fandom your stuff always gets me. :D

Augh, I really should go back and edit this entry so my reading standards look less fascistic. :(

I don't think that there should be NO ~~WIRE HANGERS~~ EPITHETS EVER, especially when all the people in a scene are the same gender. They can even be useful in some situations; say CJ and Abby had just had an argument over something, and Abby's trying to get her to leave for a bit, saying something like "'Jed will be back soon,' said the First Lady" would create the distancing effect very nicely, especially if she'd been referred to as "Abby" before.

But the trouble with this fic was that it used an epithet almost every time it referred to the characters, to the point where they were coming up with increasingly ridiculous and irrelevant titles for them for no other reason, it seemed, than to avoid using their names. In a fic that I otherwise rather liked it drove me crazy.

I have written fic! At last! But I cannot say what it is yet, as the authors are supposed to be a secret still. But I'll post it here as soon as I am no longer sworn to secrecy and all that. :D

The fact that you can use fascistic in a sentence pretty much just gets bonus points from me no matter what, so you know. ;D

Oh man, now I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. Especially if they start to get into super-specific detail type stuff, because honestly, I was reading a slash story the other day and I had to go back to screencaps of the episode because they kept referring to 'the taller man' and 'the shorter man' and it's like, Jesus H. Christ, people, Sam and Josh are maybe an INCH in height difference, what do you want from me? Anyways. Rant over. ;) Except to add another example of such, in which it was Josh and Amy and they went from names to titles to bizarre semi-titles, like 'the White House staffer said', which, depending on which season you're watching.... could be either one! Oi. And that's a het pairing, so... seriously, people. Get it together.

P.S. I have read about 60% of your fic and omgomgomgomg. Have I mentioned how much I love your stuff? Because, seriously. LOVE. Sfm I can't even. XD

I was reading a slash story the other day and I had to go back to screencaps of the episode because they kept referring to 'the taller man' and 'the shorter man' and it's like, Jesus H. Christ, people, Sam and Josh are maybe an INCH in height difference, what do you want from me?

YES. YES IT WAS LIKE THAT. Unless one character's six foot three and the other's five foot five (which they are in some cases) I can't even *remember* which one's taller half the time. Hell, they all look tall to me. And this fic had "the Earther" because one of the characters was an alien and the author had already used human to describe the other and wtf that's not even a word I don't even. D:

I am so so glad you like that fic because it was a BEAR finishing it, I'll tell you. And it was my first real femslash and half the time I was thinking "I am writing Character/OFC, what the hell is wrong with me" and 6,600 WORDS IS TOO MUCH TIME TO SPEND IN ANYONE'S HEAD. So. Ahem. Yes. I'm happy you're enjoying it so far.

stunt_muppet

I should not have been tempted back to the meme. Not even for spoilers.

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July