Two points of (less serious) blather. : comments [stunt

Isn't that a pretty thin excuse, though?

That's what I was saying above - it was played too straight for me to buy it as meta, and even though I think Whedon meant it as meta (probably), I don't think that excuses it if he still bought into the female-as-characterization-device trope. It bothered me, and to be honest, it kind of spoiled Act III for me, because I actually liked Penny in the first two acts. She was defined by the two men, which wasn't cool, but at least she seemed to have outside interests and motivations, and thus an existence outside of them. Of course, those outside motivations cast her as a stereotyped angelic female, but at least they were there, you know?

I'd like more Zoes, myself. She was in a relationship, but I don't think she was ever portrayed as just "Wash's wife". And she had a backbone of iron. But then, I haven't seen the entire series yet, so maybe something really genderfaily happens to her later, idk, but she was tied with Book for my favorite character.

I think, in a way, he is a victim of his past successes; he won praise for being feminist because he wrote female characters who weren't solely plot devices, but now there's this feeling (especially in his fandom, from what I've seen) that Whedon's the most feminist writer out there and he couldn't possibly fail at gender politics. Which...you know...he can. Any writer can.

I seem to remember Battlefield having pretty good gender politics, yes? I mean, you've got Ace, and Shou Yuing, and Brigadier Bambera (!!!), and I can't help it I really sort of adore Doris. It's been a while since I've seen it, though, and I don't think I was really into Old Who when I did. I should rewatch it myself. It's on DVD, isn't it?

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AFAIK Zoe stayed pretty cool, though there was one episode where Wash did a nutty for plot purposes. He was jealous of Zoe and Mal sharing war stories, etc. but the text condemned his reaction (jealousy) while allowing for his motivations (wanting more time with Zoe) to be respected. Not gender fail, and Zoe and the others got to bust in all bad-ass and save the damsels in distress. The best part is how Wash is TOTALLY COOL WITH THAT and Mal doesn't complain, either. That episode was generally full of genre-bucking awesome, although there were some OTT scenes and the basic premise required some character contortions (see Wash's jealousy, above.)

Battlefield is awesome in the first episode on the strength of Brig Bambera alone (especially since it's not commented on or made a big deal of; she's simply THERE and yes, in command) but I was worried that it went sour later or something. Also, SURPRISE LETHBRIDGE-STEWART! :D Also, also, Doris is the blind innkeeper, right? Well she's ALSO the XO IN EARTHSHOCK. I'm totally awesome, not geeky, for picking up on that and you can't tell me otherwise. ^_^ Amazon says it'll be on DVD in a month. Whoo!

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I really must see the rest of this series, then. :D And yes, I love that none of the men in the episodes I've seen seem threatened by Zoe - unless they should be, of course, like if she's got a gun pointed in their direction. But there's none of the manly, swaggering, not-a-job-for-ladies posturing with Zoe that I've seen so far; Mal respects her as an equal and Wash seems okay with his wife being incredibly badass. As he should be.

No, Brigadier Bambera stays pretty awesome throughout. And (I'll put the text in white in case you do not want to be spoiled) . And Doris is the Brig's wife, who I thought showed up in Episode 1 but apparently does not. She's awesome. And the Doctor remarks that she "finally caught him" or something like that, which makes me happy because I secretly think the Brig's a bit clueless in affairs of the heart and she probably had to propose to him because he just didn't get it.

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I know the music library has copies (b/c Dr. L) so you can watch it there. I'm sure Godlet would be willing to accompany you. :P Firefly is very awesome, but just as a friendly warning it there are a few episodes that are not up to par. Just like any show, really, though thankfully those episodes are just kind of sucky and don't incite RAEG.

Just a sudden thought-- even Jayne, the most swaggering manly man on Firefly, isn't threatened by Zoe's gender or thinks that she's of for being kickass while female. That's cool. :P (Also, have you met Saffron yet? I <3 Saffron although her gender politics are maybe not as sound.)

AH! Yes, Doris is in the first episode, I just didn't remember her name. She didn't make much of an impression on me other than she was, unfortunately, forced to Provide Exposition. "Do you miss it? Being in UNIT?" as if at some point in the course of BEING HIS WIFE she wouldn't have already found out. For a moment I thought she was just an acquaintance because it didn't make sense otherwise. I'm also not sure how I feel about the Brig being the sort of person who gardens, but that's mostly because I don't understand the appeal. It's better than teaching at a boys school, though.

And lol at the reverse proposal. That's the sort of thing I could see Jo doing, actually. Not to the Brig, though, because that would be silly. >>

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I wasn't aware there was a Firefly fan amongst the staff. That makes me very excited, because I love it when grown-up type people are secretly big nerds. :D

I haven't met Saffron yet. I've heard squeeful things about her, but the only episodes I saw were the pilot and that one where everyone evacuates the ship and you think Mal dies and there's a whole bunch of flashbacks and eventually everyone comes back and Mal doesn't die. I don't remember the title, but it didn't have Saffron in it.

Doris gets an awesome moment or two at the end, which is when I started to like her, but I'll leave them to you to actually witness. And while I' not overly fond of gardening myself, my parents are, and they've tried to explain it to me multiple times, so I think I kind of get the reasoning behind it. Plants' needs are simple; they demand little of you save sunlight, water, and bug-zappers. They look pretty if you grow them right, and if they die it's really not a big deal. Easy, rewarding, and without anybody talking back to you. Far more low-stress than teaching, especially teaching young boys.

I see those shifty eyes at the end of the sentence there, young lady. You're up to something. *peers*

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Dr. L is, in fact, a published Buffy Scholar. I also think he's seen every episode of ER ever but I may be mistaken in that. I just remember that he was holding open office hours near to exam time but warned that he would be missing for a few hours because he had to go watch his show. :P

"Out of Gas" is the episode you saw, and I remember watching it with you. Saffron doesn't show up for several episodes from the beginning, iirc, but you should probably watch in order rather than skipping to that ep because of Character Stuff. (basically, Saffron is an Unknown Element which doesn't have much of an effect if you don't know what everyone else's Default is.)

Ah, ok! I'll look for her nearer to the end, then. I just finished Ep 2 OMGOMG!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!! I am v. worried, but still rather appalled at the BLATANT DISREGARD FOR OLD CRAP that was shown. Archeologists use tiny little chisels and brushes for a reason, guys! Not even Indiana Jones would approve of the use of FRIGGING EXPLOSIVES at an exposed dig. :/

o.o <---- innocent face
You are so suspicious sometimes, honestly. muahahaha

Edited Date: 2009-04-05 08:07 pm (UTC)

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I just remember that he was holding open office hours near to exam time but warned that he would be missing for a few hours because he had to go watch his show.

I...think I would slightly resent that. "But but but this is the only time I have available! Isn't my grade more important than Buffy? ISN'T IT?!" *hysterics ensue*

I'd been planning on watching in order, if/when I got access to the whole series, so that works for me.

jcgenzie_and_co was planning on having a rewatch a couple of weeks from now, so we'd watch it all over the course of a weekend or two.

Ace is rather marvelous, isn't she? What with her talent for concealed explosives. I thought she was going to be one of those companions who was overhyped and I wouldn't end up liking very much, but she really is that good.

And...um...yeah. At least the Doctor told them to blow up that spot? Kind of? Not really? I'm trying not to give too much away, but yeah, some very dubious archeological practices at work here. Not that dubious practices are anything new to the series, of course.

I am suspicious with very good reason, young lady. Of course, what I'm suspicious about very often ends well for me and/or ends with some rather magnificent Crimes Against Fandom.

Pssh, you know Everyone Ever at UNIT/Everyone Else at UNIT is the for real true OTP; Jo and the Brig are no exceptions.

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He freely offered to stay during those hours if someone showed up before he left and I'm sure if someone had asked specifically to meet him then, I'm sure he would've stayed. And actually the show was ER, since Buffy was off the air already. Not that this, er, makes it less dorky. :P

ACE AND SEVEN ARE SO ADORABLE IN BATTLEFIELD.
"We gave her Excalibur."
"Good!"
"Good?"
"Oh, you can get a [something something] sword anywhere. But Aces" [taps nose] "are very rare."

Oh, oh, and Brig saying "I'm sorry Doctor, but I'm sure that I'm more expendable than you are!" BROKE MY HEART. IT BROKE, MUPPET. NOW I HAVE TO SUPERGLUE IT BACK TOGETHER. ;.;

The gender politics of the serial remained pretty good, although I was slightly skeeved by the "Aren't they wonderful?" lines delivered by random men. The women in the serial were still clearly things to be beheld and appreciated by the men, but they got some agency at least. I wasn't altogether happy about Bambera getting knocked out and the Doctor saving Ancelyn from Mordred rather than her, but seeing as it's his show and all I can understand.

You were absolutely right, however, that Doris got some awesome moments at the end. :D I lol'd at "have something delicious ready for us" because in my house? That's how it works. My mom's all, "Yarrrgh, I be off fer a hard day in th' salt mines" and my dad's all like "OK honeybunny!* I'll have dinner ready when you get home!" So when dynamics like that show up in TV I feel comforted. ^_^

Ace was totally rocking the spandex in this serial, btw. Not that it distracted me or anything. I lol that it takes place after the circus serial. Inspired, was she? >P

* he has seriously called her this.

speaking of random Brig pairings, was it you i was arguing two era vs. three era with on the meme last night?

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Ace and Seven are adorable. That's why I like them so much; they remind me of a Seventies or Sixties companion team, but with slightly more (obvious) Issues. And for some reason I make squeaking noises whenever he pokes her on the nose.

BROKE MY HEART. IT BROKE, MUPPET. NOW I HAVE TO SUPERGLUE IT BACK TOGETHER. ;.;

I WILL BORROW YOUR SUPERGLUE OMG. I just...I could go on and on and on about how much I love the Doctor/Brig relationship and all its complications and how at the end of the day he really is the Doctor's best friend on Earth and they luff each other soooo much and if the Brig isn't in Ten's regeneration special I will quite possibly cry.

Yeah, the "aren't they wonderful?" lines weren't the greatest, but at least the women got marveled at for doing things, instead of just for looks or whatever, which made me feel somewhat better. A bit like The Invasion, really - "prettier than a computer" was skeevy and objectifying, but the reason the boys are admiring Zoe is because she kicks ass and blows things up, albeit remotely.

IIRC, I think Ace is pretty much always rocking the spandex. It's kind of her thing.

speaking of random Brig pairings, was it you i was arguing two era vs. three era with on the meme last night?

Alas, I was not. But I wish I was because that was very, very high on the list of best threads I've ever seen. I have it bookmarked. :D

"WE CAN BRING A KAZOO. IT'LL BE KINKY."

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And for some reason I make squeaking noises whenever he pokes her on the nose.
Same reason that people go "n'awwww" when they see a kitten. It's biologically programmed. Trufax. It also ties into the Hot Cocoa test which I am happy to say Ace and Seven pass. I think Seven and Mel would probably pass, as well, from what I saw of them in Dragonfire

Ace starts off wearing the huge t-shirt and a flowy skort thing, which is also fun, but not nearly as distracting as the spandex.

I didn't really think it was you I was arguing with, esp considering the kinky bits, but I felt your spirit and thought I should ask. ^_^

What other threads do you have bookmarked, btw? I have absolutely nothing bookmarked but I feel like I should start, if only to keep a record of my nefarious deeds. >>

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Seven and Mel definitely pass the Hot Cocoa Test; he does almost as much poking and hugging with her as he does with Ace, although Ace gets slightly more by virtue of being there longer. What do you think of Mel, by the way? She's one of those companions who supposedly get much, much better in her Big Finish adventures, but I kind of liked her anyway, screaming notwithstanding. She grew on me.

Um...looking in my bookmarks, I have way more than I thought. >___> I've got the Pertwee-era Fashion Love thread (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/3136.html?thread=13184832#t13184832), obvs, because that was what made me realize that the meme didn't fail hard all the time, plus the House That Dripped Blood (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/3810.html?thread=16772834#t16772834) picspam because it is for great lolz. There's also a lot of picspams in there and some conversations I've had with other people, especially if they led to interesting fanon or such. There's a ficlet about the Doctor cosplaying as himself (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/3329.html?thread=14705921#t14705921), a thread about which scientists we'd want the Doctor to visit in a historical episode (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/3329.html?thread=14944257#t14944257), a thread about Turlough that ends up with him dancing at the Moulin Rouge (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/3810.html?thread=16293602#t16293602), a thread where someone explains that Transporter 2 has the same plot as The Silurians (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/4094.html?thread=17071102#t17071102), a winter wear picspam that went on longer than most (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/4094.html?thread=18169342#t18169342), someone proposing a way of making peace between trads/Threefen and rads/Sevenfen (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/4419.html?thread=19621187#t19621187), an epic picspam of the actors who played the Doctors in other roles (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/4419.html?thread=19921731#t19921731), a really long and awesome discussion thread (see! We *can* have discussion without wank, and boo to anyone that says we can't) (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/4419.html?thread=20249411#t20249411) that actually started as a comment on a one-sentence porn meme and spun way off from there (I was one of the participants in that conversation; which one will become obvious quickly), a Benton love thread (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/4419.html?thread=20754243#t20754243), that talk about Liz Shaw and stereotypes in The Blue Tooth (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/4635.html?thread=20958747#t20958747), the only Boxman wank that doesn't make me want to break things because it's about characterization!fail instead of sexism (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/4635.html?thread=21949467#t21949467), an enormous picspam of HiFi whut (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/4635.html?thread=21991451#t21991451), a discussion thread about commenting on fic (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/5236.html?thread=22356852#t22356852), a discussion of plot holes in Doctor Who turns into Jo and Sarah requisitioning the UNIT boys and an appreciation of Day of the Daleks tortureporn (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/5236.html?thread=22746996#t22746996), and the thread where someone recced me Verdigris (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/5236.html?thread=22913140#t22913140).

OH GOD THAT'S NOT EVEN ALL OF THEM. D:

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I've only seen Mel in Dragonfire, but she was adorable and I considered going backwards for her. Only my determination to see Ace and carry on to the TVM kept me from it.

That list is faaaaaaaaaabulous. :D And several of those threads were before my time so I doubly appreciate the links.

Are you going to do the friending meme, btw? I'm waffling on the idea. There's lovely people I wanna get cracky with but the meme is slow and right now I just feel like LJ takes so much energy. Which is silly because I'm not really DOING anything lately but I just. idk. I'm also worried because I'm coming up on my 1 year anniversary of entering the fandom and er, my past fandoms haven't lasted much longer than that. :/

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I've only seen one other Mel episode, and it was with Six (Terror of the Vervoids, IIRC - must get around to posting reviews of all these things I've quietly seen), but I think she offsets Six a bit better than Seven. Not that she doesn't work with Seven, but she provides a sort of counterpoint to Six's bombastic attitude and gets to gently yet forcefully tell him off, which you know I'm all over. Aaaand that sounds way more creepily sexist than it did in my head, I swear. :(

I don't know about the friending meme. It's a nice idea in principle, but I just don't know if I have the time or energy to entertain people atm, plus the Thing I Talk About Under Filter that will probably take me off LJ for the better part of June. And, yeah, I do feel like LJ is kind of an energy drain, which is silly because it's supposed to be a break, but...yeah. And having more fannish friends would mean I'd feel even guiltier about not having written anything by way of fic or meta recently.

I'm not making a whole lot of sense right now; sorry.

But your past fandoms haven't had 45 solid years of canon that you've only just scratched the surface of. You haven't even gotten to the books and audios yet! :D I find that constantly having something new to explore really helps the fandom luster stick.

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I'm hopeful that the 45 years of canon will do exactly as you say. The only thing is, I feel much more easily into writing TW than into writing Who. I haven't really examined what makes me take fannish engagement to the next level but as it is, TW has it and the other shows (apparently and at the moment) don't.

Another part of it is that I'm devoting a little more time to the Big Project of Big Doom, which actually feeds parasitically on Who fandom (and several other fandoms) so, idk idk. Things are a little weird right now. I'm running into issues where I have two characters-- a Who character and an orig character which was initially the Who character but is now barely recognizable--in the same situations and my brain tries to elaborate for both characters.

Also, now that I'm officially Going Back to School I don't feel the same drive to produce fic that I did a few months ago.

And, well, there's... other stuff. That I may or may not seek reassurance for under flock. :/

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*shrug* I'm still not sure what differentiates for me between "fandom" and "something I watch", so I'm not sure I could help you. I mean, I kind of figured that Torchwood engaged you more fannishly given that that's what you write, but even Torchwood's getting new canon soon, yes? And you never know, you may yet find a DW era that clicks with you the way Torchwood does. It might even be EDA or BFA or NA or PDA or any of those other wacky acronyms.

And I've definitely done that with my own characters, to the point where I ended up writing neither, so sympathy on that. And...well, School will do that to one's fannish output. Not much I can offer there.

And, well, there's... other stuff. That I may or may not seek reassurance for under flock. :/

*pre-emptive hugs*

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stunt_muppet

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finally replying now that I've seen all four episodes!

aaaaand finally replying after a disjointed week or two

Re: aaaaand finally replying after a disjointed week or two

Re: aaaaand finally replying after a disjointed week or two

Re: aaaaand finally replying after a disjointed week or two

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