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stunt_muppet at 11:45pm on 22/11/2009 under bouncing ideas off y'all, doctor who, fanfics, things i want to write, writing
stunt_muppet at 11:45pm on 22/11/2009 under bouncing ideas off y'all, doctor who, fanfics, things i want to write, writingSo you remember how I said I might have accidentally fanwanked about the NAs while writing Made Up? I looked over what I'd written again and I realized I'd run into a significant canon ambiguity that I'm not sure how to resolve. So I turn to you for help.
So in Chapter 3 of Made Up, the dreams start getting more literal, and begin with a dream version of the Brigadier talking to the Doctor about fractals (which were a recurring image in the last chapter), specifically exactly self-similar and quasi-self-similar fractals as representations of time. The Doctor makes a go at following along with this metaphor, but eventually tells dream!Brigadier to cut it out because he can't follow along with the Brig talking science like that. As he puts it, it's breaking character (because dream!Brigadier has already made the point that he's just a figment of the Doctor's imagination and is only showing up because metaphoric representations and weird symbolism don't seem to be getting through to him).
The dream figure instantaneously becomes Liz, and asks if that's better (though at first it's insulted on the Brigadier's behalf: "Exactly how stupid do you think I am?") and asks if that's better. The Doctor is hesitant, and for the rest of the conversation the figure is both Liz and the Brigadier, both and neither at once, in superposition.
The figure asks if the two people could potentially switch; in some alternate existence, one of the branching imperfect fractals spiraling out from every timeline, Liz could be a soldier and Alistair a scientist. The Doctor mulls this over, and arrives at the conclusion that, in that case, they might have the same names, or be analogues to his universe's Liz and the Brigadier, but they wouldn't be themselves in any meaningful sense. They'd be different people. The dream-figure then turns that back on him; if he had not been exiled, if he had not lived on Earth, would he still be himself? In some potentiality, he probably managed to avoid exile, but is the person who did that still him, still the Doctor, or is he someone else? Or are they both part of the same potentiality?
Of course, there's a problem: depending on which version of canon I use, Time Lords might or might not exist in other universes. According to book canon (specifically The Face of the Enemy, I think?) Time Lords exist in alternate universes, as the alternate!Doctor was the dictator in the Inferno-verse. According to TV canon, however, specifically the Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel two-parter, Time Lords can't exist in alternate universes (though it's not like that stops all the people writing Rose/alt!Doctor, but dammit I have been an anoraky weirdo for years and I'm not about to stop now), in fact the energy is poison to them or something, I can't quite remember.
If I choose to go with the former interpretation, then the dream figure can use the example of the dictator-version of the Doctor, and how that person isn't him, not really. Of course, the problem is, I don't think the Doctor knows about the dictator by that point. I'd have to check. Plus, it's not very dramatic.
If I go with the latter interpretation, then there's a rather more interesting metaphor to be set up there. In that version, the Doctor makes the point that the dream-figure's comparison to Liz and the Brigadier doesn't apply very precisely to him, since Time Lords are "above" the multiverse, and thus don't have alternates or potentialities. The dream-figure laughs, and asks how he knows there aren't multiverses above multiverses - if the Time Lords' reality isn't just one multiverse of many which in turn contains many multiverses. Thus the image of the fractal repeats itself here, whereas before there wasn't as much of a connection until the end of the chapter.
Any advice on how to merge the two concepts, or which one works better in the context of the story? Or why I'm putting this much thought into something I probably won't finish and nobody besides me will honestly care about?
*sigh* I really must do some work, given that stuff's due Monday and I have to pack for Thanksgiving break, and if I don't work I should probably do some writing on Yuletide or these two chapters because now that I managed to write something I want to keep on a roll, but realistically I should probably go to bed so I can at least get an early start tomorrow. Hm hm.
So in Chapter 3 of Made Up, the dreams start getting more literal, and begin with a dream version of the Brigadier talking to the Doctor about fractals (which were a recurring image in the last chapter), specifically exactly self-similar and quasi-self-similar fractals as representations of time. The Doctor makes a go at following along with this metaphor, but eventually tells dream!Brigadier to cut it out because he can't follow along with the Brig talking science like that. As he puts it, it's breaking character (because dream!Brigadier has already made the point that he's just a figment of the Doctor's imagination and is only showing up because metaphoric representations and weird symbolism don't seem to be getting through to him).
The dream figure instantaneously becomes Liz, and asks if that's better (though at first it's insulted on the Brigadier's behalf: "Exactly how stupid do you think I am?") and asks if that's better. The Doctor is hesitant, and for the rest of the conversation the figure is both Liz and the Brigadier, both and neither at once, in superposition.
The figure asks if the two people could potentially switch; in some alternate existence, one of the branching imperfect fractals spiraling out from every timeline, Liz could be a soldier and Alistair a scientist. The Doctor mulls this over, and arrives at the conclusion that, in that case, they might have the same names, or be analogues to his universe's Liz and the Brigadier, but they wouldn't be themselves in any meaningful sense. They'd be different people. The dream-figure then turns that back on him; if he had not been exiled, if he had not lived on Earth, would he still be himself? In some potentiality, he probably managed to avoid exile, but is the person who did that still him, still the Doctor, or is he someone else? Or are they both part of the same potentiality?
Of course, there's a problem: depending on which version of canon I use, Time Lords might or might not exist in other universes. According to book canon (specifically The Face of the Enemy, I think?) Time Lords exist in alternate universes, as the alternate!Doctor was the dictator in the Inferno-verse. According to TV canon, however, specifically the Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel two-parter, Time Lords can't exist in alternate universes (though it's not like that stops all the people writing Rose/alt!Doctor, but dammit I have been an anoraky weirdo for years and I'm not about to stop now), in fact the energy is poison to them or something, I can't quite remember.
If I choose to go with the former interpretation, then the dream figure can use the example of the dictator-version of the Doctor, and how that person isn't him, not really. Of course, the problem is, I don't think the Doctor knows about the dictator by that point. I'd have to check. Plus, it's not very dramatic.
If I go with the latter interpretation, then there's a rather more interesting metaphor to be set up there. In that version, the Doctor makes the point that the dream-figure's comparison to Liz and the Brigadier doesn't apply very precisely to him, since Time Lords are "above" the multiverse, and thus don't have alternates or potentialities. The dream-figure laughs, and asks how he knows there aren't multiverses above multiverses - if the Time Lords' reality isn't just one multiverse of many which in turn contains many multiverses. Thus the image of the fractal repeats itself here, whereas before there wasn't as much of a connection until the end of the chapter.
Any advice on how to merge the two concepts, or which one works better in the context of the story? Or why I'm putting this much thought into something I probably won't finish and nobody besides me will honestly care about?
*sigh* I really must do some work, given that stuff's due Monday and I have to pack for Thanksgiving break, and if I don't work I should probably do some writing on Yuletide or these two chapters because now that I managed to write something I want to keep on a roll, but realistically I should probably go to bed so I can at least get an early start tomorrow. Hm hm.
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(no subject)
Of course, audio canon (in "Zagreus") also states that Time Lords exist in alternate realities. Personally, my fanon is that there used to be alternate Time Lords, since book and audio canon say so, but that changed in the aftermath of the Time War. Just, uh, don't ask me for specifics, because I've been trying to figure out exactly how it would work for a few years now. Merging timelines and memories is pretty much the extent of my handwaving point.
Also, for the record, there's a slight possibility that I came up with the entire theory as a way to make the various companions of the Eighth Doctor all canon in my head. So, uh, take with a grain of salt?
That said? I really like the idea of your latter interpretation, because the metaphor really is interesting to consider.
(no subject)
This is a good thing to strive for and as such I see no reason to discount your theory.
I think I'm leaning towards that one too, if only because it fits so much better with the theme of the chapter and gives me a way to tie it back to Chapter 2. Thanks for helping me talk this out; it really helps.