stunt_muppet: (omfg whut)
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Fandom's managed to fail hard again in my absence, so let's just go over this one more time:

1. Rape, dubious consent, graphic violence, violence against children, torture, and other common triggering content needs to be warned for. Period. A trigger is not the same thing as a squick. Someone who is triggered doesn't just feel disgusted or upset; being triggered can be akin to a flashback for people with personal experiences with that kind of content. And there are many readers who have personal experience and don't want to expose themselves to that kind of content. Refusing to warn for triggering content is not edgy. It is not telling people to grow up. It's saying that you don't care if a rape survivor relives their experience. Your fucking artistic integrity is not more important than that. Spoiling your story is not more important than that. Have some fucking consideration for other people. It takes maybe three minutes to type a warning.

1.a. If your story is so dependant on shock that it's ruined, RUINED I say! if you warn for surprise rape, it's a pretty fucking weak story. Learn to construct a compelling narrative and then come talk to me.

1.b. If you're a survivor and you're okay with reading noncon/dubcon/violence/whatever, good for you. That doesn't mean everyone else is okay with it. Warning still required.

1.c. Warning for triggering content is not the same as warning for, say, character death. Yes, I understand the argument that warning for character death would in some cases spoil a story, and I personally don't like warnings for character death. But a warning for graphic violence doesn't spoil the story, and still alerts people who might be triggered. Furthermore, it is possible to code warnings in white-on-white so people who don't want to read them don't have to.

2. If Person A performs a sexual act on Person B, and Person B says no, pushes them away, or otherwise refuses, and Person A continues anyway, and there is no prior agreement between the two with regards to safewords, safe spaces, established relationships, et cetera, then Person A is committing rape. The gender of the people involved is irrelevant. The physical strength of the people involved is irrelevant. No means no.

2.a. Men can be victims of rape. Men do, in fact, have the ability to turn down sex. The idea that men always want sex, will never refuse it, would just love to be woken up by a blowjob even if they say no, is an ugly gender stereotype, part of the same rape-apologetic mindset that propagates the "she must have wanted it"/"she shouldn't have dressed like that if she didn't want to put out" excuse. After all, if men constantly crave sex, simply can't help themselves, then of course they can't be blamed if a woman leads them on, right?

tl;dr: Yes, you do need to warn for triggering content. Yes, no means no. I really don't get we need to cover this again. Is it so hard to think of other people?
Mood:: 'annoyed' annoyed
There are 12 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] eyesmadeofjade.livejournal.com at 04:34am on 24/06/2009
it frustrated me when these "weird girls" think of men as sexual beasts, and can't believe a man could save himself for marriage or an appropriate time. I don't really understand these people :/
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 02:51am on 27/06/2009
I think a lot of it has to do with the way women are socialized to think about sex - it's not acceptable for a woman to want sex, but since men want sex all the time, they can't help it, so it's okay to go along with it because it's not the woman desiring sex. Or something like that. It's an ugly view and it's offensive to both men and women, and I hate that it's still so prevalent.
 
posted by [identity profile] sterling-sky.livejournal.com at 05:43am on 24/06/2009
*Everything* you said in this post. Just *everything*.

Thank you for having sense and also making it. ;)
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 02:55am on 27/06/2009
Thanks; I needed to get it off my chest. Some people around fandom are just so willfully ignorant and determined to be hurtful to people who have already been hurt, and it's just...infuriating, to see people who have no consideration for others.

*sigh*

Thanks for listening.
 
posted by [identity profile] prof-pangaea.livejournal.com at 07:19am on 24/06/2009
re: 2 and 2.a: what *is* it with doctor who fandom lately?? i've seena few mountains of fail about the warning debate today but no where else has it devolved in blatant sexism and literal rape apologetics. what the actual fuck?

(sorry for jumping in, i'm scrolling friends of friends cos i'm too wound up to go to sleep yet)
ext_3685: Stylized electric-blue teapot, with blue text caption "Brewster North" (reinforce your underpants)
posted by [identity profile] brewsternorth.livejournal.com at 02:32pm on 24/06/2009
but no where else has it devolved in blatant sexism and literal rape apologetics.

Ewwww. I think I must've avoided those specific threads (because though I'm not *terribly* triggerable, fail of that kind can make me rage). Did you get the impression that it was mainly New Who, D/R fans jumping in, or was it a fairly mixed failboat?
 
posted by [identity profile] prof-pangaea.livejournal.com at 04:26pm on 24/06/2009
from the example you gave i'd assumed you must have seen the assholery on the meme last night, but maybe you were referencing the recent cot_after_dark wank instead. which was apparently the inspiration for the meme last night anyway (let me defend rape apologists by laughing at anyone who thinks a man receiving unwanted sexual actions from a "hot blonde girl with lucious lips" could EVER be rape! then make "lolarious" rape jokes). so yah, the rape apologetics definitely seemed to be from that group of d/r fans. the general fail is broad and deep, though.
ext_3685: Stylized electric-blue teapot, with blue text caption "Brewster North" (Default)
posted by [identity profile] brewsternorth.livejournal.com at 04:56pm on 24/06/2009
...I've not read either the anonmeme (I refuse to read that on principle), or cot_a_d, but am not surprised at your observations.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 03:09am on 27/06/2009
I have no idea. Most of the time I love Who fandom, but the constant rank genderfail is discouraging. I can't say I was surprised to hear some of that rhetoric given how many fucked-up views of sexuality seem to trickle down to fanfic.

I can't help but wonder if some of this isn't the fault of the Doctor-companion dynamic and the subtext thereof. There's a degree of inequality in any Doctor-companion relationship, which gets stronger if the relationship is explicitly romantic (as it's been in New Who). If it's not treated carefully, I think that can feed right into the awful views people have on gender roles and sexuality. Hmm.
ext_3685: Stylized electric-blue teapot, with blue text caption "Brewster North" (ire)
posted by [identity profile] brewsternorth.livejournal.com at 02:30pm on 24/06/2009
Yeah, all of this. It's just good practice. I'm not what I'd consider a triggerable person, mostly, nor do I generally write triggery stuff, but there's a fic on my ledger for which I will research seven bells out of it and stick big old warnings in boldface all over the header, because for a specific demographic (which will probably encompass a non-trivial number of my flist) it will be potentially *very* triggering.

...and yes, ficcers of all stripes need to remember consent. (A flistie of mine was looking forward to more fics where the actual *giving* of consent could be made to be hot.)
 
posted by [identity profile] violetisblue.livejournal.com at 05:02am on 25/06/2009
I saw that flister's post and took it as a personal challenge for some future fic/s of mine. (A good challenge.)
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 10:50pm on 29/06/2009
Same here - I'm fortunate enough not to have been triggered, and I don't write much that's triggery, but if I ever did it's only a minute or two out of my life to type a warning in the header and it potentially spares someone else a lot of unnecessary pain. It's not like I'm being burdened by "having" to warn, and that some people insist that others be hypervigilant and have someone else screen their fics because they can't be arsed to type out *one sentence* is apalling to me.

A flistie of mine was looking forward to more fics where the actual *giving* of consent could be made to be hot.

That's just it - I was reading some of the comments by the author in the big CoT_after_dark blowup (the one who didn't think her fic contained noncon even though Character A said no and pushed Character B away), and she and her friends acted like consensual sex was the most boring thing in the world. What's so desperately unsexy about "yes"?

(Sorry for the late reply; have been AFK for a few days.)

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