posted by
stunt_muppet at 10:03am on 28/07/2008 under movies
Not that I was doing anything particularly productive with that time, mind you, but...
Anyway. Went to see The Dark Knight on Sunday with Uncle and Brother, and I have but one pressing (and non-spoilery) question: Why does anyone still live in Gotham? At all? From what we're told, the crime rate was astronomical even before Batman, and add to that the periodic psychopaths who rain death and devastation on the city every so often...why doesn't everyone move? Frankly, I would've been the hell out of Dodge after Scarecrow, never mind the Joker.
Speaking of iconic villians, I'm assuming that subsequent movies (and oh, there will be subsequent movies) will mine further from comic canon, and thus will use more of the classics from Batman's rogues' gallery. But, as I mentioned above, part of the whole point of the Nolan Batman movies is to distance the cinematic Batman from the colorful campiness that clung to some of the movies, to make it darker and grimmer and shorn from what the non-geek population considers comic books to be. Much like what Frank Miller did in "The Dark Knight Returns", come to think of it. In Nolan's Batman movies, the Joker has smeared and unkempt makeup and facial scars; the Scarecrow is a man in a suit with a burlap mask rather than someone actually dressed as a scarecrow.
What I want to know is, how does one de-camp villians like the Riddler? Because the Riddler is a rather obvious choice for a future villian, but he also walks around in a lime green bodysuit with question marks on it. Or say, the Penguin? I can rather imagine a Nolan Poison Ivy, funnily enough; I tend to think of Uma Thurman at the end of That One Movie What Had Arnold as Mr. Freeze - a strung-out acid queen with bleary makeup. But those first two? Drawing a blank.
Another note: The trailer for the Watchmen movie actually looks quite good, although, as Uncle pointed out once, "you can make three minutes of anything look good". I suppose it's time for me to actually read Watchmen now, isn't it? (No, I haven't read Watchmen yet. Yes, that is my geek cred, flying out the window. I know.)
Bravo to Jeffrey Dean Morgan for taking the role of the Comedian, though. If that doesn't shake the Grey's Anatomy aura from his resume, I don't know what will.
Anyway. Went to see The Dark Knight on Sunday with Uncle and Brother, and I have but one pressing (and non-spoilery) question: Why does anyone still live in Gotham? At all? From what we're told, the crime rate was astronomical even before Batman, and add to that the periodic psychopaths who rain death and devastation on the city every so often...why doesn't everyone move? Frankly, I would've been the hell out of Dodge after Scarecrow, never mind the Joker.
Damn. Those were some seriously intense two hours. I was worried that The Dark Knight would fall prey to the Superhero Sequel Syndrome, in that this would be the requisite movie where the hero doubts his powers and tries to live a normal life and emos at the camera in a way that makes me more inclined to slap them than feel sorry for them, even if their angst is legit. And we did get a some of that, but it was played differently than usual, not to mention was totally justified by the fact that everything pretty much goes to hell starting with the first frame of the movie. I believed the Super-Angst coming from Batman.
But, more than that, the movie never allowed us to become bored with or overexposed to Batman; this was, at heart, the Joker's show. And the Joker was fucking terrifying. His description of himself as an unstoppable force was chillingly accurate, because we got the sense that there was nothing he wouldn't do, nothing he had to lose. He couldn't be reasoned with. He couldn't be threatened. And that was what made him so scary. Batman could try to avert, lessen, or repair the damage he did, but no matter what he did he would never, ever be able to stop him. Not without killing him.
To be honest, I plain forgot that Heath Ledger was under that makeup. All I saw was the Joker, unpredictable and violent and smart. The disappearing pencil? His visit to Harvey Dent? The scene in the police interrogation room, where he laughs and laughs as Batman beats him? I got chills.
Not to mention the damage he did was such that anything, in this movie, seemed possible. Anyone but Batman seemed fair game for an explosion or a knife in the face. There was no sense of basic rightness, that everything was going to turn out all right in the end. And that just makes the whole movie all the more scary. That scene with the two boats in the harbor? I really thought one or both of them was going to blow.
Another detail I liked: How the Joker's backstory changed every time he told it. I thought it a rather interesting nod to the ever-changing nature of comic-book canon, though I may be making that up.
Regarding Harvey Dent: Because I am a bad geek who, for the most part, doesn't read comic books, I really had no idea that Harvey Dent was Two-Face. I got quite upset when a History Channel program (on Batman villians, natch) spoiled me for that, because while I figured Dent was probably going to die I didn't know that that was what would happen to him. Brother mocked me for not knowing, because apparently he's only read two Batman comics and even he knew that, but I stood by my offense.
And then Dent whipped out the two-headed coin, and I realized that I was probably supposed to know that already. Here is my Geek Membership Card; I am turning it in.
That said, I was impressed by Aaron Eckhart here. I expected Heath Ledger to be good, because I'd heard nothing but (deserved) praise for his performance, but I'd heard little about Harvey Dent. And Eckhart was...quite good, actually. Wholesome as Dent, but with an edge. I'm not sure I totally bought his degeneration into a revenge killer after Rachel's death, but after his scene with the Joker in the hospital, it didn't matter anymore. The transition left a little to be desired, but after it was finished, Homicidal!Harvey was good. Nicely unbalanced. And the Two-Face makeup was unexpectedly fantastic, which I'd been worried about; the last time I saw Two-Face in a movie, half his face was eggplant purple, which not only made it hard to take him seriously but wouldn't jive with Nolan's darker, grittier, forcibly de-camped Batmanverse.
I must register a complaint that yet another female character was relegated to Love Interest status and then summarily killed off for thelulz angst, but I've come to expect this sort of thing from superhero movies, sadly. But aside from that, Rachel Dawes really didn't register, which was one of the reasons I didn't quite buy the Harvey Dent-to-Two-Face transformation. She didn't leave enough of an impression on me, nor did their relationship, which meant it stretched credibility a tad that Dent would stoop to random killing with her death, specifically, as the tipping point.
I suppose, given that this is a Batman movie, I should talk a bit about Batman, but, while Christian Bale is a fine, fine performer (witness The Machinist and The Prestige), his supporting cast kind of stole this movie out from under him. Gary Oldman was (obviously) fantastic as Commissioner Gordon, who despite what he calls Dent really is the best of them - always fighting, always working, doing what he knows he has to even in the face of an impossible task. Michael Caine is still a great Alfred, taking the butler beyond a comic character and a plot device (witness his grim-faced story about the thief in the jungles, and "we burned the forest down") but also adding some much-needed lightness to the whole proceedings. And...well, Batman was there. Being Batman. Like I said earler, I bought his conflicts, I bought his exhaustion, I bought how trapped and desperate he was beginning to feel, and that I never muttered "shut up, emo Super" into my popcorn is a testament to how carefully Bale plays the character. But here...it almost felt like Batman was the background, giving a framework for Gordon and Dent and Alfred and the Joker to exist within. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but still.
I can't help but wonder what they're going to do about the Joker in subsequent movies. I know that they switched Maggie Gyllenhall for Katie Holmes in the role of Rachel without so much as a comment, but with no disrespect meant to the actresses in question, Rachel's role was not half as demanding, nor as distinctive, as the Joker's.
Also, Harvey Dent? Aten't dead. You don't give one of the iconic villians of a comic-verse half a movie, even if it was half a really long movie.
But, more than that, the movie never allowed us to become bored with or overexposed to Batman; this was, at heart, the Joker's show. And the Joker was fucking terrifying. His description of himself as an unstoppable force was chillingly accurate, because we got the sense that there was nothing he wouldn't do, nothing he had to lose. He couldn't be reasoned with. He couldn't be threatened. And that was what made him so scary. Batman could try to avert, lessen, or repair the damage he did, but no matter what he did he would never, ever be able to stop him. Not without killing him.
To be honest, I plain forgot that Heath Ledger was under that makeup. All I saw was the Joker, unpredictable and violent and smart. The disappearing pencil? His visit to Harvey Dent? The scene in the police interrogation room, where he laughs and laughs as Batman beats him? I got chills.
Not to mention the damage he did was such that anything, in this movie, seemed possible. Anyone but Batman seemed fair game for an explosion or a knife in the face. There was no sense of basic rightness, that everything was going to turn out all right in the end. And that just makes the whole movie all the more scary. That scene with the two boats in the harbor? I really thought one or both of them was going to blow.
Another detail I liked: How the Joker's backstory changed every time he told it. I thought it a rather interesting nod to the ever-changing nature of comic-book canon, though I may be making that up.
Regarding Harvey Dent: Because I am a bad geek who, for the most part, doesn't read comic books, I really had no idea that Harvey Dent was Two-Face. I got quite upset when a History Channel program (on Batman villians, natch) spoiled me for that, because while I figured Dent was probably going to die I didn't know that that was what would happen to him. Brother mocked me for not knowing, because apparently he's only read two Batman comics and even he knew that, but I stood by my offense.
And then Dent whipped out the two-headed coin, and I realized that I was probably supposed to know that already. Here is my Geek Membership Card; I am turning it in.
That said, I was impressed by Aaron Eckhart here. I expected Heath Ledger to be good, because I'd heard nothing but (deserved) praise for his performance, but I'd heard little about Harvey Dent. And Eckhart was...quite good, actually. Wholesome as Dent, but with an edge. I'm not sure I totally bought his degeneration into a revenge killer after Rachel's death, but after his scene with the Joker in the hospital, it didn't matter anymore. The transition left a little to be desired, but after it was finished, Homicidal!Harvey was good. Nicely unbalanced. And the Two-Face makeup was unexpectedly fantastic, which I'd been worried about; the last time I saw Two-Face in a movie, half his face was eggplant purple, which not only made it hard to take him seriously but wouldn't jive with Nolan's darker, grittier, forcibly de-camped Batmanverse.
I must register a complaint that yet another female character was relegated to Love Interest status and then summarily killed off for the
I suppose, given that this is a Batman movie, I should talk a bit about Batman, but, while Christian Bale is a fine, fine performer (witness The Machinist and The Prestige), his supporting cast kind of stole this movie out from under him. Gary Oldman was (obviously) fantastic as Commissioner Gordon, who despite what he calls Dent really is the best of them - always fighting, always working, doing what he knows he has to even in the face of an impossible task. Michael Caine is still a great Alfred, taking the butler beyond a comic character and a plot device (witness his grim-faced story about the thief in the jungles, and "we burned the forest down") but also adding some much-needed lightness to the whole proceedings. And...well, Batman was there. Being Batman. Like I said earler, I bought his conflicts, I bought his exhaustion, I bought how trapped and desperate he was beginning to feel, and that I never muttered "shut up, emo Super" into my popcorn is a testament to how carefully Bale plays the character. But here...it almost felt like Batman was the background, giving a framework for Gordon and Dent and Alfred and the Joker to exist within. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but still.
I can't help but wonder what they're going to do about the Joker in subsequent movies. I know that they switched Maggie Gyllenhall for Katie Holmes in the role of Rachel without so much as a comment, but with no disrespect meant to the actresses in question, Rachel's role was not half as demanding, nor as distinctive, as the Joker's.
Also, Harvey Dent? Aten't dead. You don't give one of the iconic villians of a comic-verse half a movie, even if it was half a really long movie.
Speaking of iconic villians, I'm assuming that subsequent movies (and oh, there will be subsequent movies) will mine further from comic canon, and thus will use more of the classics from Batman's rogues' gallery. But, as I mentioned above, part of the whole point of the Nolan Batman movies is to distance the cinematic Batman from the colorful campiness that clung to some of the movies, to make it darker and grimmer and shorn from what the non-geek population considers comic books to be. Much like what Frank Miller did in "The Dark Knight Returns", come to think of it. In Nolan's Batman movies, the Joker has smeared and unkempt makeup and facial scars; the Scarecrow is a man in a suit with a burlap mask rather than someone actually dressed as a scarecrow.
What I want to know is, how does one de-camp villians like the Riddler? Because the Riddler is a rather obvious choice for a future villian, but he also walks around in a lime green bodysuit with question marks on it. Or say, the Penguin? I can rather imagine a Nolan Poison Ivy, funnily enough; I tend to think of Uma Thurman at the end of That One Movie What Had Arnold as Mr. Freeze - a strung-out acid queen with bleary makeup. But those first two? Drawing a blank.
Another note: The trailer for the Watchmen movie actually looks quite good, although, as Uncle pointed out once, "you can make three minutes of anything look good". I suppose it's time for me to actually read Watchmen now, isn't it? (No, I haven't read Watchmen yet. Yes, that is my geek cred, flying out the window. I know.)
Bravo to Jeffrey Dean Morgan for taking the role of the Comedian, though. If that doesn't shake the Grey's Anatomy aura from his resume, I don't know what will.
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Hmm.
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But it's true that there are really no 'weak links' in the cast. All such professionals and all seemed to be completely on the same page about what kind of movie they're making, what is its tone was and how truly dark it would be. Yet, in spite of all those terrific actors (like Oldman, Caine etc) and a very good story and a lovely production, I suppose it is just a testament to the director's skill that the movie eventually has a high, even quality like that, all the way through. It was also wonderful to find that the movie stuck to that theme of madness right to the end.
With Ledger, I was very positively surprised myself: I admit I had expected him to be a bit unfairly praised, but the moment he stepped in and did his thing I was sold: he was indeed ghastly, oh yes.
I've now just seen the movie twice in three days (yes, I'm silly that way). I certainly didn't expect like the movie this much. Especially as, to me, Batman Begins evoked to no great feelings for or against. But it will be terribly interesting to see what they would cook up the next, assuming 'the next' will came pass. However, I'd say this one will be a hard thing to top and, of course, nobody wants to share Spidey 3's fate. But we'll see.
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...so why doesn't everybody move there, then? At least Metropolis doesn't look like an Upton Sinclair book is about to happen in it. :( Nice place to visit, Gotham (in story form, of course) but I can't imagine living there.
And frankly, I was a touch skeptical about Ledger's performance going in; I didn't expect it to be as good as people said it was, because who's going to speak ill of the dead? But he was amazing. Absolutely blew me away.
I'm...not sure if I could see this movie again right away. Not that it wasn't good, it was just so intense. And while I'm assuming that there'll be a sequel (whether Nolan wants to make one or not, the ending of this movie was so open-ended that they kind of have to), it'll be pretty easy not to fall into the Spider-Man 3 trap. Just, you know, don't have three villains competing for attention and don't make the protagonist grow emo bangs.
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Watchmen is a very interesting piece; it's dated, but intriguing. Hard work, but I think worth it. I was a little conflicted when I ended. I feel the same way about the trailer - it looked great, looked straight from the graphic novel in places, but it was just a conglomeration of set pieces with no actual plot, so it's impossible to tell yet if it's any good or not.
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Hard work, but I think worth it.
I figured; I actually picked up the first volume some time ago (which is how I know who the characters are), but I was about fifteen and not nearly smart enough for it yet. I kept meaning to go back to it; now's as good a time as any.
Even without having read the comic, there were shots in the trailer that looked like comic book panels - the scene with Rorschach throwing a bomb into a crowd of protesters, in particular. (That was Rorschach, right? I couldn't see his face clearly.)
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As for why people still live in Gotham...hmmm... I think it's because too many people are sheeple. Even if they had the money to facilitate a move, they probably wouldn't know where to go, nor would they want to give up whatever security Batman provides them.
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But but but with Batman comes all the psychos and diabolical planner-types who fight him; that doesn't make you any safer!
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Oooh, strung out acid queen with bleary makeup for Ivy kinda works. I've been seeing her as an articulate, aloof, elegantly grungy post-grad type. Whatever the case, I want her redeemed like the way the story had it when she ends up living in the park, making it all lush and taking in stray children.
There's so little I know about the comics themselves. My Batman knowledge comes from the cartoon show, but that's a damn good place to get it, as far as I'm concerned.
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They must be - all that death and crazy happening around them all the time. If they do decide to move, they could laugh in the face of any other corrupt inner city ever.
Whatever the case, I want her redeemed like the way the story had it when she ends up living in the park, making it all lush and taking in stray children.
Was that in the animated series? Because my knowledge of Batman and its universe comes from there as well, but it's been years since I've seen an episode; my memory's a touch fuzzy.
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