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You'd judge me if I told you I was taking study breaks by watching Transformers Animated, wouldn't you?

I knew you would. Good on you, I deserve judging for that.

I'll freely admit that I've been poking at Transformers fandom since the movies came out, mostly because the TF Wiki is inordinately amusing (they're the Trope Namers for Ruined FOREVER) and is full of loving mockery and frank acknowledgment that their show/franchise ultimately exists to sell toys and they're okay with that. But I hesitated, because between this and Batman I feel like as I grow older the maturity of the shows I watch has plunged, and I fear that a) that says disquieting things about me and b) by the time I'm thirty I'll think Teletubbies is really neat and will hole up in my room watching The Wiggles concerts, quietly drooling. I do still engage in intellectual activity and watch/read things that make me think, I really really do. You guys believe me, right?

Anyway, I'm kind of glad I finally leaped in, because TFA has robot ninjas. (I think Prowl might be my favorite character so far. He's a robot ninja. Who was trained by a robot ninja voiced by George Takei) I'm quite enjoying it so far, though it has the usual problems of not-very-thoughtful kids series (Jazz still talks jive; there are maybe two girl robots in the entire series, and one of them's a Tragic Villain and the other doesn't do anything); it presents Decepticons as credible threats instead of having their schemes foiled every week and it has human characters who don't grate on the nerves. It's not bad for what it is.

It does bring up something that's irked me since I started getting into comics and "boy stuff", and that's that there will, I'm quite certain, never be a Transformers series or a kid's superhero show that's inclusive of a young female audience. And that's because even female SF fans don't think girls like that kind of thing. Male SF fen don't think girls like it because they assume we're too busy talking about lipstick and shoes to appreciate robots beating each other up; even other women (at least that I've noticed) tend to write off action-driven shows (and the military SF or action-SF that tends to arise from people who grew up with them) as "boy stuff", inherently uninteresting to young girls or women.

I think SFF as a genre is definitely improving on the whole so far as representation of women and various racial, sexual, and gender identities goes, though of course it still has a long way to go. But, in the unlikely event that I ever manage to get anything published ever, I'd love to take some of those changes to the boy stuff. I'd like to write military SF with soldiers and generals who are black, Hispanic, Asian, female, genderqueer, trans, gay, bi, people of every variety, and have it not be a big deal. I'd like to write a girl robot who kicks just as much ass as the boys and doesn't have to be a villain or a medic to do it. Hell, I'd like to take on the idea of shape-shifting robots having a gender assignment.

It's a little discouraging knowing that such a project really wouldn't have much of an audience, although I'd also like to query the idea that young boys will lose interest if more than one character on their action-adventure shows is a girl, or that a straight male will see dialogue between two women and read nothing but "shoes shoes makeup boys shoes babies cooking dresses shoes".

tl;dr thanks TFA guys but next time have Arcee actually do something, kthanxbai.

Back to work.

[ETA] Although reading up on Arcee gives me fresh new reasons to hate Michael Bay, who apparently though Arcee wasn't cool enough for the second live-action Transformers movie and delighted in killing her off. Because, you know, Bay, it's not like you had the power as the director to make her more awesome or anything rather than gleefully slaughtering the only female robot in the entire movie franchise after about ten minutes of screentime, you fucking tool.
Music:: Autobots, rock out!
Mood:: 'blah' blah
There are 16 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] kayliemalinza.livejournal.com at 07:38am on 11/12/2009
1. You can be a ten-year-old boy all you want as a long as you promise not to make fun of my sparkly heart stickers and stage cattle stampedes with My Little Ponies.

2. I'd like to write military SF with soldiers and generals who are black, Hispanic, Asian, female, genderqueer, trans, gay, bi, people of every variety, and have it not be a big deal.
I WILL BE YOUR AUDIENCE FOR THIS. I'll write fic and everything.

3. a straight male will see dialogue between two women and read nothing but "shoes shoes makeup boys shoes babies cooking dresses shoes".
They are trained by society to do this. If you catch them young with your brainwashing, then there's no problem. In other words, cartoons are a great angle of attack.



p.s. here's the real reason I'm commenting. I'm watching some Xena tonight and GUESS WHAT. Aphrodite is Cupid's MOM. And she SUMMONS HIM to SCOLD HIM in her Valley girl voice and he's all sulky and like, "What do you want, Mom, God!"
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 08:20am on 11/12/2009
1. I would never make fun of sparkly hearts and My Little Ponies! The reason nobody can tell I'm actually a ten-year-old boy is because I also harbor a love of sparkly things, most especially sparkly red things.

2. There are a lot of latent gender, race, sexuality, ablist etc problems in the genre that do deserve a thorough deconstruction, but honestly I also think it's a good idea to have characters of every metaphorical stripe and refuse to justify it or make it a Very Special Episode/Book. It normalizes what is otherwise the Other and, in the hands of a competent author, makes the character in question a person rather than a token.

3. ALL RIGHT. I've always wanted to brainwash children. :D Really, children haven't been fully molded by society and all its bizarre beliefs yet, so what better time to teach them to think different?



okay immediately after I read this I went and sought out clips on YouTube, Veoh, Dailymotion, everywhere, needing to see this in action. I only found fanvids of Aphrodite, but you know what? I think I love her already without even hearing her voice. She has wiggly-fingered jazz hands when she emerges from her seashell! It's brilliant.

I would be even more amused if Ares was Cupid' poppa who tried to pretend he didn't exist, jut like in the myths, but that might be a bit much to ask.
 
posted by [identity profile] sterling-sky.livejournal.com at 10:00pm on 11/12/2009
I WILL BE YOUR AUDIENCE FOR THIS. I'll write fic and everything.

I second this x100000000000000.
 
posted by [identity profile] morgeil.livejournal.com at 01:02pm on 11/12/2009
*pokes at TFA* Hum. (And You totally need to start Beast Wars after this. S2/3 Blackarachnia! XD XD)

Pro-strong, competent women in SF is one of the reasons I love Mainframe Entertainment like pie. Hooray for competent female military commanders! ILU DOT AND JADE.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 04:06am on 12/12/2009
I will soon! There's only three seasons of TFA to get through, so I should be finished soon and moving on (back?) to Beast Wars, maybe even Armada and G1 if I'm feeling really ambitious. I think the main reason I started out with TFA is it had characters I knew from pop-culture osmosis and/or the movies (Bumblebee, Jazz, Starscream, Soundwave, etc), whereas the Beast Wars cast is mostly new to me save Blackarachnia, Optimus, and Megatron.

Mainframe is really excellent at that. Granted, all I've seen of their work so far has been ReBott, but Dotand Mouse and Hex and even AndAIa (for all the fanservice she had once she grew up) were all dynamic, realized characters who never felt like tokens, and it's really refreshing when I look back and remember how rare that was and still is.
 
posted by [identity profile] morgeil.livejournal.com at 05:18am on 12/12/2009
The amusing thing is that I'm working on the Transformers-verse backwards from you. Started on Beast Wars, then plan to move on to TFA, etc. (How long are TFA's season, btw? It took me forever to get through Beast Wars season 1 because it was 26 eps. I'm too used to UK seasons nowadays, I think... :P)

The BW cast really grows on you, even before Blackarachnia's character development gets jump-started. Though you'll probably want to reach through the screen and smack Cheetor for his idiot!moments on occasion...

Mainframe is really excellent at that.

Very much. XD I've been wading around in Shadow Raiders fandom recently. It's not as well-known as ReBoot and Beast Wars, as it was made late in Mainframe's golden era and was much shorter lived. But it continues the same girl!power tradition, with three strong female characters also in its main ensemble cast.

I'm tossing around the idea of doing an awesome!women Mainframe tribute vid once I finish BW... no one's ever done with all three shows. It would be fun! XD

Edited Date: 2009-12-12 05:21 am (UTC)
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 10:40pm on 12/12/2009
TFA has 13 episodes per season, I think. The first season has 16, but three of those are the pilot movie. About as long as a British season, come to think of it.

Do you plan to watch Beast Machines? I've heard mixed opinions on Beast Machines - well, mixed opinions from people other than the usual "Ruined FOREVER" crowd, so I'd look forward to hearing your opinion on it.

I know you posted about it at some point, but where might one acquire Shadow Raiders? PM me if it's all Fight-Club-y, but now that I'm settling into this particular genre of TV I'd like to investigate it further. Also, that sounds like an awesome vid idea and you should do it. :D
 
posted by [identity profile] morgeil.livejournal.com at 04:37am on 13/12/2009
Ah, 13-ish is good. Quite manageable. :) *scribbles onto the to-watch list*

I do plan to watch Beast Machines, if only for completist sake if nothing else. Though I am worried because I've heard disturbing things about my beloved Silverbolt... :/

I know you posted about it at some point, but where might one acquire Shadow Raiders?

This is probably the most convenient place...

Lots of Bablyon 5/Star Wars/Blake's 7 influences. Oh, and they kidnap Unicron from Transformers and actually make the concept scarier. You'll probably be entertained. :)

ETA: Also, handy TV Tropes page is handy...
Edited Date: 2009-12-13 04:51 am (UTC)
 
posted by [identity profile] happydalek.livejournal.com at 02:25pm on 11/12/2009
Gendered Transformers? That never even occurred to me. I had this whole subconscious hypothesis that the Transformers only used male pronouns for themselves because of having to speak in English, and that on their home planet gender didn't exist because what purpose would it serve? No sexual reproduction going on as far as I know of*.

But now I'm envisioning an episode where the transformers on Earth are made aware of gender, and some of them decide that they are in fact female, while keeping their established personalities and male-ish voices completely intact. I think it'd be both funny and make an important point.

* Fanfiction notwithstanding, of course. Now I'm a little curious as to how Transformers pr0n would be accomplished, frankly.

*Did you ever see the Robot Chicken sketch where Optimus Prime gets prostate cancer? Hilarious.
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 05:15am on 12/12/2009
I had this whole subconscious hypothesis that the Transformers only used male pronouns for themselves because of having to speak in English, and that on their home planet gender didn't exist because what purpose would it serve?

I really like that theory*, but the trouble with it is that some of the Transformers are built with specifically female-modeled bodies before their ever come in contact with humans - there are female-bodied and voiced Transformers with no contact with humans in every continuity - so there's clearly some concept of gender there, which...doesn't make a great deal of sense, since none of the continuities has them sexually reproducing**, but this is in fact a series meant to sell toys and I am thinking about this far too hard

*Especially because it presents the fic idea you mentioned, which I love and want to write myself if I ever learn any Transformers continuity well enough - I'm thinking Bumblebee is an obvious choice for a more ambiguously-gendered Transformer, but for comedy's sake I kind of want someone like, I don't know, Bulkhead deciding that he'd like to try out this whole lady thing. And Red Alert has been male and female in different series; maybe this one's both.


** Now I'm a little curious as to how Transformers pr0n would be accomplished, frankly.

A quick browse around the fandom tells me there's...quite a lot of fic out there devoted to answering this question. That said, I still can't answer that for you, because I'm never going to read it. My brain just recoils at the thought of Transformers porn.

I have the seen the sketch, and...objectively, I know it's funny, but in execution it makes me really sad, even though I didn't grow up with Transformers, which also makes no sense. No idea why I have an emotional attachment to a character who was never actually my Daddy Robot Jesus, but even so, Daddy Robot Jesus isn't supposed to get sick! D:
 
posted by [identity profile] happydalek.livejournal.com at 06:16am on 12/12/2009
I'm not laughing at your pain, but...

Daddy Robot Jesus. XD

After stumbling across Lion King pr0n (and reading it for the same reasons that compel one to watch a horrific accident unfold), my childhood is pretty much ruined already. I'm hoping the transformers fic is full of ironies and interesting twists on the notion of actual "robot sex," but doubtless I am expecting waaaay too much.

 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 10:05pm on 12/12/2009
He is, though! A couple of my cousin's friends did grow up with the 80s series, and Optimus is their Robot Daddy. It's just sort of an accepted thing. And with all the times he dies and comes back (the TF Wiki has a whole page devoted to "The Many Deaths of Optimus Prime") the "Optimus died for your sins" jokes become a bit inevitable.

You see, that sort of thing is why I'm glad I didn't have much internet access back then. By the time I would have been able to access Disney pr0n, I knew how to avoid it and wasn't curious enough to go looking. I kind of feel like I should just hurry up and ruin my childhood already, just to get it overwith before something else ruins it for me, but...nnngh. *cringe*

doubtless I am expecting waaaay too much

After taking a quick browse through the main TFA fic comm...yeah, for the most part you are. (There also seems to be truly alarming amounts of babyfic, which I would not have expected in a show about robots. I'm not sure how to handle this revelation.)
 
posted by [identity profile] happydalek.livejournal.com at 11:48pm on 12/12/2009
By the time I would have been able to access Disney pr0n, I knew how to avoid it and wasn't curious enough to go looking.

Oh, I was certainly old enough to avoid it. Bedeviling curiosity just got the better of me. I had expected Nature Channel-type things. It was not.

My brain has no problem at all with Transformers babyfic. I mean, they had to come from somewhere, right?
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 04:39am on 13/12/2009
I had expected Nature Channel-type things. It was not.

You expected the people writing Disney porn to have watched the Nature Channel (amusing though that would be, because now I'm imagining it written like a documentary) and/or bother to look up anything about animal anatomy? The internet is not so merciful.

I could deal with fic about the Transformers raising wee robots for some plot-related reason, but it's almost always babies brought about...well, the human way. At which point I just internally rebel, because a) they're robots and robots can't do that and b) hell, the TFA robots canonically don't know how human babies happen. There's a whole joke built around it! It was impossible to miss!

(I'm probably bring my own repulsion towards pregnancy fic into this, but dammit, I think is one instance where my bias is justified. >:( )
 
posted by [identity profile] airie-fairy.livejournal.com at 06:01pm on 11/12/2009
The Transformers cartoon? From like the early nineties or so? Omg that show was awesome, and the reason I can't watch a Transformers movie trailer without laughing for several minutes and scaring those around me. THIS is what they made a tense live-action movie out of? I mean, talking cars hitting each other is fine in cartoon form...and who are these people? Why do hot teenagers matter in this?
 
posted by [identity profile] stunt-muppet.livejournal.com at 06:04am on 12/12/2009
The Transformers cartoon? From like the early nineties or so?

Actually, this one's from a bit more recently (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Animated_%28cartoon%29); TFA was released in 2007 to cash in on new fans who might be tempted to the franchise but didn't want to deal with decades of continuity. And there are decades of continuity - after the original cartoon there was the Movie, and then the three Unicron series, and then a buttload of anime and manga that never saw US release, the Unicron trilogy, Beast Wars and Beat Machines, the live-action movies...and I'm forgetting a lot of them. It's been running more or less constantly since the 80s.

And they actually do get varying degrees of serious! They had a planet-eating monster and killed off almost all the G1 cast in the animated movie! That said, I still think the movies fail pretty hard because they're way too much about the humans and any bot that isn't Megatron, Optimus, Bee, or Starscream is indistinguishable, but there is some precedent for occasional seriousness. To varying degrees of success, of course.

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