Does it really make me that much of a bitter, cynical human being if I thought Romeo and Juliet worked better as a black comedy than as a tragedy?
I mean, it's a problematic reading, since some of the scenes are actually genuinely sad, but even by the standards of Shakespearean theater both the protagonists are ridiculously over the top, flinging themselves on the ground and threatening to kill themselves at the slightest provocation. The Nurse doesn't take Juliet seriously. The Friar doesn't take Romeo seriously except when he's trying to get him to not off himself. The proposition that Juliet marry Paris while her dead cousin's body's still cooling is so abrupt as to be absurd, as are the Rube Goldberg machinations of coincidence that lead to their deaths. The first time Romeo and Juliet meet, there's this very teasing romantic sonnet, followed by two passionate kisses - and then Juliet effectively saying "eh, that was okay, I guess." I tend to read that as her teasing him, but after the romantic language Romeo's just been talking it's quite funny. Even during the balcony scene, Romeo engages in this comically fancy language while Juliet is basically trying to get him to calm down and go away.
I don't think this means I'm dead to romance or anything. I mean, look at me, I write shipfic.Though tallying them up now I think I only wrote straight-up shipfic that ends with the two romantic leads still together, like, once. I adore Much Ado About Nothing and As You Like It; I think the romance between Orlando and Rosalind is stirring, as is the one between Benedick and Beatrice. Heck, I've been tempted to fic both Rosalind/Orlando and Rosalind/Celia. I squee over coupley cuteness and love happy endings as much as anyone, posibly more so. So why do I come off as such a cynic compared to the rest of the class?
There was some talk about how pure their affection was, and how despite all the hate in their families they were still capable of this passionate love. Which there is a point to, I suppose, but I always think back to James Joyce's The Dead - of course their affection is pure, they've known each other for like three days. They're still in the butterflies-in-the-stomach stage, and in most mature relationships you do actually grow out of that. But because they die before they can form a mature relationship, we see them in the feverish 'purity' of young, heady love. What real relationship can live up that kind of thrill, implied to be permanent since that's the last we see of it? What real person can live up to a dead man (which is where the short story comes in)? Frankly, I find it more romantic when I think two characters' relationship might last, like they might be friends in addition to being lovers, when they fight and squabble and get back to each other and actually talk to each other. Why is that so cynical?
I'm just puzzled, is all.
I mean, it's a problematic reading, since some of the scenes are actually genuinely sad, but even by the standards of Shakespearean theater both the protagonists are ridiculously over the top, flinging themselves on the ground and threatening to kill themselves at the slightest provocation. The Nurse doesn't take Juliet seriously. The Friar doesn't take Romeo seriously except when he's trying to get him to not off himself. The proposition that Juliet marry Paris while her dead cousin's body's still cooling is so abrupt as to be absurd, as are the Rube Goldberg machinations of coincidence that lead to their deaths. The first time Romeo and Juliet meet, there's this very teasing romantic sonnet, followed by two passionate kisses - and then Juliet effectively saying "eh, that was okay, I guess." I tend to read that as her teasing him, but after the romantic language Romeo's just been talking it's quite funny. Even during the balcony scene, Romeo engages in this comically fancy language while Juliet is basically trying to get him to calm down and go away.
I don't think this means I'm dead to romance or anything. I mean, look at me, I write shipfic.
There was some talk about how pure their affection was, and how despite all the hate in their families they were still capable of this passionate love. Which there is a point to, I suppose, but I always think back to James Joyce's The Dead - of course their affection is pure, they've known each other for like three days. They're still in the butterflies-in-the-stomach stage, and in most mature relationships you do actually grow out of that. But because they die before they can form a mature relationship, we see them in the feverish 'purity' of young, heady love. What real relationship can live up that kind of thrill, implied to be permanent since that's the last we see of it? What real person can live up to a dead man (which is where the short story comes in)? Frankly, I find it more romantic when I think two characters' relationship might last, like they might be friends in addition to being lovers, when they fight and squabble and get back to each other and actually talk to each other. Why is that so cynical?
I'm just puzzled, is all.
(no subject)
Personally, love-at-first-sight is one of the most damaging and distasteful literary motifs. I just don't get it.
So I'll be over here writing bff!slash, kthx.
(no subject)
The thing is, I have never seen a literary work (or even pop fiction) that takes the love-at-first-sight thing seriously. Not even my old guilty-pleasure paranormal romances. Nobody buys into this kind of thing. I honestly thought nobody in the real world did either, but the real world continues to disappoint me at times.
(no subject)
I think it's telling that Shakespeare takes the plot source for Romeo and Juliet (the story of Pyramus and Thisbe) and parodies it in A Midsummer Night's Dream.
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
It's still a weaker story/execution than it could've been, though.
(no subject)
I do have more sympathy for Romeo and Juliet now than I did before I attended this particular class session, because their family backgrounds are really kind of awful - both their families are petty and violent, half the city wants them dead even before the romance, Juliet is going to get married off at thirteen which even then was on the young side, and they're both, in fact, teenagers and prone to drama anyway. They're probably not the best-adjusted people on the planet from the get-go, and part of the drive behind the romance may be that it's a way out of their dead-end family life, something they can assume some degree of control over.
Calling it an epic love story is still missing the point, but I can buy it a bit better as a tragedy now.
(no subject)
I should really reread Romeo & Juliet with that perspective of the tragedy of their broader circumstances in mind, because I have all these explanations ready, but I haven't opened the thing in forever.
(no subject)
(no subject)
I love Hamlet. *dies laughing*
(no subject)
I'll get me coat.
(no subject)
That's cynical? I would like to order one Proud to be an Idealistic Cynic badge, please.
(no subject)
As I said above, I think there are ways to read Romeo and Juliet as a more domestic tragedy, in which the protagonists are seriously maladjusted by their violent squabbling families and are desperate to have something in their lives that doesn't revolve around the feud, but as a love story? It doesn't work and I don't think it's supposed to.
(no subject)
Unless the Nurse is TRYING to ruin Juliet? Now *there's* an idea. The nurse is pushing this thing with Juliet as far as it can go, well past the realm of Juliet being marriage-worthy. Maybe the nurse doesn't secretly want to help the young lovers, but to ruin the Capulets?
Now I've got this whole interpretation going on in my head where it's a really dark thing where the Nurse and Friar are in love with each other and they're both sick of the feud and so they're egging each other on in how far they can mess up those kids.
(no subject)