posted by
stunt_muppet at 12:39am on 21/04/2009 under doctor who, english/science otp, homework-fleeing ten-minute lj break, meta blather, things i want to write, writing
Every time I read something for my Romanticism class I end up thinking about where I could use it in a fic. Sometimes I don't even know where I'd use it; a poem just jumps out at me and passionately cries "paste selections of me in your story to make it sound profound!". (See: Blake, First book of Urizen)
Occasionally I will have these thoughts in class, which is a little embarrassing when I'm trying to engage in actual discussion. Right in the middle of a talk about illusion, symbolism, and what the title character of Keats' Lamia represented, it suddenly occurred to me that this poem could be interspersed quite nicely with a Rose/Handy fic. Really. Specifically, the section where Lamia assumes her human form (painfully, and shedding her unique features and colors in the process, dissolving in an almost chemical sense) could powerfully set the scene for a chapter on the way Handy sees himself, in relation to the Time Lord that part of him used to be - because there's got to be a conflict going on there, right? Part of him has always been human, but part of him has been a Time Lord, and he'll always have the memory of all those senses and memories and perceptions of time, even if he can't properly remember them because his human brain isn't wired that way. Even his memories might feel shallow, stripped of their color, because they no longer appear to him with all the vibrancy of all his alien senses.
And the part where Lyceus thinks that Lamia is either a goddess or a dream, but plays along with the illusion because he wants to believe in it (which my professor interpreted as Keats' commentary on Coleridge's famous principle of willing suspension of disbelief) could relate to Rose's decision to try to make a life with Handy work, even though he is in many critical ways not the man she fell in love with. Could be either grim or hopeful, that one - either with Rose knowing that the relationship isn't going to last because it's an imitative copy of the one she wanted or her walking in knowing that it's not going to be the relationship she wanted but determined to see it through anyway. Even...though...that last one didn't sound nearly as sexist in my head. Um. It's been a bad day for that.
So, yeah. It'd be kind of grim and unhappy, but then again, so is Keats. :D Life-affirming, ultimately, but not a cheery fellow.
And now I've got to read part I of Frankenstein by tommorow, and I really, really want to stick a line in An Experiment, Of Sorts Chapter 2 where Liz quotes one of the eponymous doctor's lines at the Doctor. Probably during a conversation about why she became a scientist, although it might be a bit of a stretch for them not to have had that conversation after a year. And as awesome as the quote would be, it's probably not very in character, since I'm not sure Liz would really find it all that amusing to cite the archetypal Mad Scientist, and anyway I don't know if she'd have the patience for the Romantics. She seems more like a Modernist woman.
You know, that's the one thing (aside from general block and busitude) that's holding me up on this chapter - the Doctor spending much time in Liz's company outside of work means I have to know what she likes to read, and watch on TV, and eat, and drink, and wear, and et cetera, and I cannot figure it out. I mean, I think she'd prefer having a shelf full of nonfiction/reference books, but surely she reads some fiction, right? Does she prefer full-on modernist lit? The occasional not-quite-as-challenging suspense or mystery? Genre fiction? Absurdist lit? I kind of want to write her as having a few books of Clarkean hard SF lying around, or at the very least some Wells, but I worry that that's a cliche, and besides, maybe she wouldn't have any interest in fictionalized science as opposed to the real deal.
Does she watch television at all? I mentioned her as having one, but does she use it? For that matter, what was even on TV in the early 70s? Must research further.
Can she cook, or does she call for takeaway nine times out of ten? I kind of want to have her cooking for herself, since I think she'd value being self-sufficient and takeaway gets expensive if you're eating it all the time, but at the same time I'm wary of having her stray into a stereotype. Furthermore, I'm wary of making the two of them too domestic and thus wandering into the treacherous waters of curtainfic, because in order to ward off unpleasant images of "woman cooks, man waits around for her to finish", I'd have to have both her and the Doctor in the kitchen, if only so she can shove a pan at him and say "hold this", and while I don't mind characters doing domestic a bit, I don't want it to be cutesy.
Of course, the logical solution would be that the Doctor doesn't actually need to eat, so she just cooks for herself and gives the Doctor a look when he nicks things off her plate.
*sigh* In a way, I love fleshing out a character's mundane life like this, but it does get frustrating when I don't have a lot to work with.
...and my goodness, it's late. You'll pardon me; I've got a lot of reading to do before tommorow.
Occasionally I will have these thoughts in class, which is a little embarrassing when I'm trying to engage in actual discussion. Right in the middle of a talk about illusion, symbolism, and what the title character of Keats' Lamia represented, it suddenly occurred to me that this poem could be interspersed quite nicely with a Rose/Handy fic. Really. Specifically, the section where Lamia assumes her human form (painfully, and shedding her unique features and colors in the process, dissolving in an almost chemical sense) could powerfully set the scene for a chapter on the way Handy sees himself, in relation to the Time Lord that part of him used to be - because there's got to be a conflict going on there, right? Part of him has always been human, but part of him has been a Time Lord, and he'll always have the memory of all those senses and memories and perceptions of time, even if he can't properly remember them because his human brain isn't wired that way. Even his memories might feel shallow, stripped of their color, because they no longer appear to him with all the vibrancy of all his alien senses.
And the part where Lyceus thinks that Lamia is either a goddess or a dream, but plays along with the illusion because he wants to believe in it (which my professor interpreted as Keats' commentary on Coleridge's famous principle of willing suspension of disbelief) could relate to Rose's decision to try to make a life with Handy work, even though he is in many critical ways not the man she fell in love with. Could be either grim or hopeful, that one - either with Rose knowing that the relationship isn't going to last because it's an imitative copy of the one she wanted or her walking in knowing that it's not going to be the relationship she wanted but determined to see it through anyway. Even...though...that last one didn't sound nearly as sexist in my head. Um. It's been a bad day for that.
So, yeah. It'd be kind of grim and unhappy, but then again, so is Keats. :D Life-affirming, ultimately, but not a cheery fellow.
And now I've got to read part I of Frankenstein by tommorow, and I really, really want to stick a line in An Experiment, Of Sorts Chapter 2 where Liz quotes one of the eponymous doctor's lines at the Doctor. Probably during a conversation about why she became a scientist, although it might be a bit of a stretch for them not to have had that conversation after a year. And as awesome as the quote would be, it's probably not very in character, since I'm not sure Liz would really find it all that amusing to cite the archetypal Mad Scientist, and anyway I don't know if she'd have the patience for the Romantics. She seems more like a Modernist woman.
You know, that's the one thing (aside from general block and busitude) that's holding me up on this chapter - the Doctor spending much time in Liz's company outside of work means I have to know what she likes to read, and watch on TV, and eat, and drink, and wear, and et cetera, and I cannot figure it out. I mean, I think she'd prefer having a shelf full of nonfiction/reference books, but surely she reads some fiction, right? Does she prefer full-on modernist lit? The occasional not-quite-as-challenging suspense or mystery? Genre fiction? Absurdist lit? I kind of want to write her as having a few books of Clarkean hard SF lying around, or at the very least some Wells, but I worry that that's a cliche, and besides, maybe she wouldn't have any interest in fictionalized science as opposed to the real deal.
Does she watch television at all? I mentioned her as having one, but does she use it? For that matter, what was even on TV in the early 70s? Must research further.
Can she cook, or does she call for takeaway nine times out of ten? I kind of want to have her cooking for herself, since I think she'd value being self-sufficient and takeaway gets expensive if you're eating it all the time, but at the same time I'm wary of having her stray into a stereotype. Furthermore, I'm wary of making the two of them too domestic and thus wandering into the treacherous waters of curtainfic, because in order to ward off unpleasant images of "woman cooks, man waits around for her to finish", I'd have to have both her and the Doctor in the kitchen, if only so she can shove a pan at him and say "hold this", and while I don't mind characters doing domestic a bit, I don't want it to be cutesy.
Of course, the logical solution would be that the Doctor doesn't actually need to eat, so she just cooks for herself and gives the Doctor a look when he nicks things off her plate.
*sigh* In a way, I love fleshing out a character's mundane life like this, but it does get frustrating when I don't have a lot to work with.
...and my goodness, it's late. You'll pardon me; I've got a lot of reading to do before tommorow.
(no subject)
SO glad to know that I'm not the only one who does that. But I do it a bit differently, as I'm no longer a schoolgirl, or even a student. To wit: I'm reading works by Robert Burns now & naturally, he being one of the great Scottish poets, I keep getting fic ideas about Two introducing Jamie to his work. (Burns was born after 1745, though I can't remember the exact date, so Jamie wouldn't have known him growing up) He even has a poem called Jamie Come Try Me that I desperately want to figure a way of using in fic, or as a prompt, or as SOMETHING for them.
I also do a lot of that when I'm reading the Romantics - I feel like in a fic somewhere, THERE MUST BE SOME SHELLEY IN THERE SOMEWHERE, but it'd most likely be Eight quoting him & that's just a bit stereotypical of me to do, I think. (or possibly not - he DID meet Shelley, after all. :D) Though I could possibly get away with Keats or something by Leigh Hunt, if I wanted to. (& was as well-versed in them as I am in Shelley's work.)
& NOW LIZ. First off, have you ever listened to her Companion Chronicle The Blue Tooth? It has a good bit of backstory about her life as a student & her social life. (augh, that sounds so shallow) & there are plenty of bits about her scattered throughout the story, so if you really get stuck, that could be a good thing to hear.
On her reading tastes - Liz IS so practical that I can't see her reading a LOT of humourous books, but she could have one or two lying about - maybe even a trashy romance from her first year at university hidden in the very back of her closet? (or would that be too stereotypical?) But then again, I really don't see her reading really heavy things, like books on existentialism or heavy philosophy, but she COULD. I just personally don't get that feel from her. But you can always go for the unexpected! Who's to say she doesn't like a little laughter & a bit of trash now & again, especially with her line of work?
As for cooking - I'd see her as someone who can cook enough to feed herself, but she's no chef or kitchen goddess. I think she'd probably make simple, but filling things, like potatoes, pasta, chicken or turkey occasionally, or maybe soup & garlic bread. But I can also see her as having a few really good recipes hidden away, in case she's entertaining a visitor or if family comes to visit.
Um, okay, shutting up now. ::blushes & runs back into the corner::
(no subject)
make me sound all artsy and educated and crapconnect the events of the fic to something a little more Campbellian.I would love to read a Jamie fic with Robert Burns in it. :D And Eight and the Romantics go together very well, in particular, but I especially think a young Doctor would be fond of the Romantics if he met them. Fits with his favorite bit of history being the French Revolution, unless of course he was referring to the Reign of Terror and not the overthrow of the monarchy, since most of the Romantics were in favor of the latter and became disillusioned by the former...
I listened to part of someone else's copy of The Blue Tooth; I still haven't heard the whole thing, since I had some...issues with it and I don't like the idea of not having any more Liz stories, anyway. :( I should pony up and listen to the whole thing, for characterization if nothing else.
I kind of wanted to avoid the idea of having one trashy novel hiding in the back, because while I like the idea myself it does feel a little like a stereotype. Although I do also like the idea that her equivalent of a trashy romance being, like, a space-opera SF series - something a little more pulpy than she'd like to admit to enjoying. She's not supposed to read soft SF! That's barely better than fantasy! It's bad science! Et cetera.
And yeah, she seems a little too levelheaded and practical to be really big on philosophy and theory - not that she couldn't handle it, but she doesn't find it engaging or thinks all that abstract worrying is missing the point.
As for cooking - I'd see her as someone who can cook enough to feed herself, but she's no chef or kitchen goddess.
Exactly. I think she'd want to be self-sufficient, and that includes being able to feed herself if necessary, but it's not a leisure-time activity for her or anything like that, and she hasn't the desire nor the inclination to be a virtuoso chef. On that note, I wonder if her family ever does come to visit. Does The Blue Tooth mention her family? I can't remember.
No, no, no need to shut up! I love talking characterization and things with people, and always welcome whatever you want to say. It helps a lot when it comes to writing. :D
(no subject)
make me sound all artsy and educated and crapconnect the events of the fic to something a little more Campbellian.That's quite similar to my reasoning behind that as well! Though mine's also born out of my love of literature & history, so I love mixing the two in Whofic. (or rather, I WOULD, if I did it!)
Ever since I picked up a copy of poetry by Robert Burns (ironically, for a bit of research if I end up writing Jamie sometime - I could NOT write him without knowing a little Scottish history; I'd feel so odd doing it) I've wanted to get it into a Two & Jamie story. My copy even has the bagpipe music for some of his songs, so it's almost akin to baiting me to get it into fic. :D & I think I've only ever seen one fic where the Doctor does visit with a few of the Romantics (Byron, Mary & Shelley, I believe!), which is a bit sad, considering how interesting a story one could make it. (& o, I DO need to read up on the French Revolution, I think. Who says history can't inspire one? ^_^)
The Blue Tooth isn't exactly one of the best of the Companion Chronicles, admittedly; I liked it mostly for the fact that it was a Liz story & for the Cybermen, which I don't think she ever met when she was with UNIT. But I think it would be an alright place to start for some Liz characterisation. :)
I kind of wanted to avoid the idea of having one trashy novel hiding in the back, because while I like the idea myself it does feel a little like a stereotype. Although I do also like the idea that her equivalent of a trashy romance being, like, a space-opera SF series - something a little more pulpy than she'd like to admit to enjoying.
O, I love that idea, far more than what I suggested! & yes, it would be a bit stereotypical for it to be some cheap romance novel - Jo I could see with that, MAYBE, but yeah, Liz with something like a sci-fi pulp novel would be a much better choice for her.
Liz is so grounded that I couldn't see her particularly fascinated by philosophy or such, even if Three was talking to her about it - she might listen, but she's a scientific mind, through & through.
On that note, I wonder if her family ever does come to visit. Does The Blue Tooth mention her family? I can't remember.
As far as I remember, no, nothing in-depth or anything. Just one fast mention of her mum not waking her up for double chemistry when she's been drugged & is totally confused at one point. So no.
Aww, thanks. :D I rarely have anyone to discuss things like this with myself, so it's fun to share with you! I just hope I can be of a little help & am not just spamming you endlessly. ^_^
(no subject)
My copy even has the bagpipe music for some of his songs, so it's almost akin to baiting me to get it into fic. :D
Now that's just tempting. :) And yeah, the Shelleys and Byron spent a long retreat together (during which Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein), so that'd be a really convenient period for the Doctor to run into all three of them. I really want to write fic where the Doctor meets Coleridge, though, simply because Coleridge writes some of the most unsettling poetry of the entire Romantic period. Or possibly Blake, because he was kind of insane. :D
I liked it mostly for the fact that it was a Liz story & for the Cybermen
Me too - I was really happy that there was a new Liz story, but some of her characterization there really bothered me. I didn't like the fact that Jean had taught her to have a social life and see life beyond science, because it kind of put Liz into the stereotype that so many female scientists in fiction fall into - that of the ice queen, someone who only cares about science and knows nothing about human relationships until someone teaches her how to luv. It's got the ugly implication that a woman who puts a career or scientific exploration before a relationship is somehow defective or not a proper person; the only reason she cares about her work more is because she hasn't learned to care about people at all.
And one of the things I liked about Liz was that she didn't fall into that stereotype. She was sharp and sarcastic, yeah, but she cared about her coworkers and friends, and I got the sense that she had a life of her own. She wasn't a caricature; she wasn't frigid. And it annoyed me that the writers fell into that old stereotype when they'd done such a good job of avoiding it before.
I would have liked it better if Liz had been the one to coax Jean out of her shell and teach her about life, really. It would still have used that stereotype, but at least it wouldn't have contradicted Liz's prior characterization, and it would have left all the lovely femslashy subtext between them firmly intact for us to enjoy.
Ahem. Sorry for tl;dring at you.
And some of the early pulps did include romantic subplots, so we could still get the protests that she's not reading for that. I can imagine her being a bit enchanted by the idea of "sufficiently advanced technology" as indistinguishable from magic and the wilder conjectures of what scientific development could do. Plus just sort of enjoying a good adventure story every once in a while.
No, no, don't worry, you're not spamming! It is helpful to talk things out; that's why I make these posts! And it's a lot of fun to bounce ideas off others and talk about characterization and things. It's one of my favorite things about fandom. :D